In the 30 October, Saturday, edition of the Straits Times (page A14), it was reported that NTU student Lim Zi Rui was telling SM Goh about how younger Singaporeans no longer feel a sense of belonging to the country. Here is the exchange, as reported by the Straits Times (bold emphasis ours):
“This is your country,” SM Goh replied. “What do you want me to do to make you feel you belong?”
“For my part, don’t worry about me,” Mr Lim said. “I will definitely do something, if I can, for Singapore. But I can tell you honestly that the sentiment on the ground is a bit different.”
“If that is prevalent among young people over here, we’ve got a real problem,” SM Goh said. “If the majority feel they don’t belong here, then we have a fundamental problem. Then I would ask myself: What am I doing here? Why should I be working for people who don’t feel they belong over here?“
(Read Yahoo’s report of the exchange here.)
—————-
American president Barack Obama, after having won the US presidency:
“And to those Americans whose support I have yet to earn – I may not have won your vote tonight, but I hear your voices, I need your help, and I will be your president too.“
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Dear RED-man and theforgottongeneration,
Yes,Obama and his administration is just as lousy as his predecessors.USA debts keep on piling up,whilst Singapore reserves keep on piling up.USA is better than Singapore?.With so many different presidents taking charge of USA during these last 50yrs,its economy got worse time and again.With the same party running Singapore for the last 44yrs,its economy is getting better each time.Still think Obama is better?.Agreed,Singapore’s human rights is not perfect but it is improving
progressively over the yrs.
Please don’t compare Goh with Obama, it’s an insult to the Americans. USA’s economy and responsibility is so much greater.
PAP don’t even dare to admit their mistakes.
Preston loon
Other than bullshit, what else you are at best?
///USA debts keep on piling up,whilst Singapore reserves keep on piling up///
USA are very open of their debt, as a matter of fact I have provided a link to that. However, Singapore reserve have been piling up is yet to be known. Since PAP said this is a state secret.
Wow, LKY must be your Ah Kong and LHL must be your father with another woman that even Ho Chin don’t know. You can know our reserve pile up. Total crap from your mouth and I don’t even bother to read on what you have written. I stop reading at “Singapore reserve pile up”.
@ Andrew Leung.
Are you telling us US$17 trillions in debts is justified just because USA is vast and has a greater responsibility?Well just divide this amount by 450 millions residents living in America.Also,by whose standard shall we compare with our PM LEE?.
Malaysia PM?.Thailand PM,Philippines President?.Or maybe Cayman Islands?,Trinidad?,Jamaica?.
I still do not understand why some of you are defending a failing economy.
@Red-man,
I do not think you are aware of the facts printed in most foreign periodicals selling in Singapore.Why not buy a copy of Asia Week or Economist and check it out yourself before you get too personal with me.Btw,me no relations with the LEE family.If you think the numbers given by the Singapore government are not factual,how come no intl.media want to expose its misrepresentations.
US$17 trillions divide by 450 million people = $38,000
I rather pay that, for democracy and a better life.
PM Lee, no need to compare. Mee Siam mai hum is uniquely Singapore.
..traveller 1 November 2010
I was actually at the rally at Raffles Place when he made the ‘fix’ opposition remark…. I understand that he apologized for the remark ….
I was there too when he made “fix” remarks. The apology came few days later only after the ground sentiments is undesirable.
…Dead Poet 3 November 2010
traveller
If they were thinking 30 years ahead as you claim, do tell me why we ended up having to bring in millions to booast our population. Whose great idea was the stop at two policy. Were they thinking ahead when they did that……
Recently MM Lee predicted local politics more or less remains stable for the next 10 to 15 years. Yes, 10 to 15 years prediction in stable environment. For such turbulent and interdependent world, 30 years of thinking ahead (for most issues) is impossible, far fetch from realistic and pragmatic thinking.
….busdriver 3 November 2010
To traveller,
There is a huge difference between the governance of the US and Singapore. Singapore is *SMALLER* in size and population than NY, Chicago, SF. The US population is very diverse in political views than our more or less homogenous views despite the groundswell of unhappiness with the PAP. This huge diversity is reflected in their Congress from the extreme right and to the left compared to our parliament which is essentially conservative. Obama is not king and cannot force Congress to do what he wants. The Republicans have mostly thwarted what Obama wanted to do (and yet he has passed health care and wall street reform) while GCT has a compliant majority in Parliament. So no, you are comparing a very large apple to a watermelon seed. If we swap GCT for Obama, I doubt if GCT can do 1% what Obama has done so far……
Though Taiwan and Singapore both as economic entities, those delegates / planner from Taiwan are realistically compare Singapore with Taipei City and Taipei County combined for every espect of social, economic and political measures rather than Taiwan as a whole.
@ Andrew Leung,
That is only the Federal debts per capita.How about the states’ debts and the local cities’ debts?.Are you sure you want to live in USA in his present time when a job is hard to find?.
Dear Preston,
I’m sure SM/PM will be very happy to hear your praise reports on their financial performance.
Obama immediately admitted his mistake and failure to focus on domestic politics. Goh just questioned himself why he should bother to work for people who don’t feel they belong here.
This is the difference between excellence and mediocre. Goh can no longer contribute much. If the old guard are so tired, the new ones are so incapable of holding the fort. PAP is really getting a vote of no confidence but is in denial.
Goh asked the students to join politics, make a difference, create buzz etc.
They(PAP) are deluded, they just want everybody to listen to them, agree with them etc.
Anyway I rather pay USA citizen debt burden eg $100k and have some freedom, better scenery etc than pay the government here the same for overprice house and car etc.
I would also feel very glad to join/volunteer in the US Army and defend the country as an immigrant, no need to wait for second generation.
I’m also unemployed here, whether unemployment 2 or 10% doesn’t really make much difference. There maybe you can get some money from the govt, here is very hard.
Also if you are homeless, there you got soup kitchen or homeless shelter, here the police will catch you and fine you. The prisons there also got better living conditions.
However these are just my feelings, I’m sure I will also complain about the US govt, but at least they won’t sue me bankrupt.
@Andrew Leung,
So,now i know where you are coming from.It is not about the Singapore government’s performance that you dislike but rather it is its social policies that do not work for your circumstances.I empathize with you.
Preston,
My circumstances do not make me dislike PAP. I simply dislike them and their political trickery.
You are free to worship them and give your life to the party. PAP will cause their own downfall and seal their destruction one day.
Preston
Don’t return a question with a question. If you think I am a complainer, by all means, make yourself feel comfortable. I don’t think i owe you a answer for that.
During my stay with TOC, I have make many friends real live member who often comment on this blog. Helped some of them even to solve problem that their stupid MPs thrown them like balls. Seriously, you farts and it smell! And you do not use your brain to think when you speak.
Since you have admit to be one of the quiter whom have left singapore for donkey years, dont assume you know about Singapore. Your occasional visit will also not make you know better.
Like I said, since you think the opposition is inadequate. Why not tell us what is your grand idea? There is nothing wrong being a quitter. However, a quitter who full of hot air is another story. Don’t assume you are us, you have given that right since you left!
Btw, I am very comfortable with my life. I earn more than enough to support myself and my family of 3. You might say some would even envy. I am often seen as a can do person in my company. Some even tell me that no problem seems very big to you.
The reason why I am telling you is that your F-up skill in profiling of a person suck big time. If between PAP and opposition, I would choose opposition. Not because I am sure that they are capable, but my admiration for some of them to risk what they have to go up that stage.
I see the love of this country in most of them. And I see many more here that are ready to support them. Thus, frankly if your objective is to distort the perception of the opposition supporter here. I think you can really save it. Simply because when we try to stop believing how F-up the PAP are, we are always been reminded of their short coming from the first step out of our house.
My logic is simple. The opposition might not be really experience in managing the country. But I would like to think that they will not be short of helping hands from people like us.
As for PAP, there present in Singapore is like holding on to a time bomb worst than the weapon of mass destruction. I don’t know about the future of Singapore if it is to fall on the opposition (which is very unlikely, the most half half in power sharing). But with PAP in full power, we are in for doom, is a matter of time. A Government that takes from it people, but refuse to return it to the people can’t be good.
@preston loon, 4 November 2010
“…With so many different presidents taking charge of USA during these last 50yrs,its economy got worse time and again.With the same party running Singapore for the last 44yrs,its economy is getting better each time….”
Theoretically & morally, yes, the longer an admin. stays on, the longer term projections should be. But is this true for Singapore, minus all the hearsay and hero-worshipping?
Take median wage. For USA, despite the changes of presidents, etc., median wage has on the whole gone up for past decade. See http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/central.html
For Singapore, despite the GCT/LHL being CONSISTENTLY in power, our median wage has been flat for over a decade. See
http://www.mom.gov.sg/Documents/statistics-publications/wages2009/mrsd_2009ROW.pdf (chart 4).
I am using offical releases in both cases so data is …. official.
Also on the GDP figures (aka economy) in above SG source. See if we are really better off over past decade. In particular, productivity – ask what is pinky in MOM doing. Or that zorro clown.
You also said our human rights record is improving. Ha, ha, ha. Part of the UN complaint is the standard of housing for migrate & “transient” workers. This was brought about by the large influx in recent years; we don’t hear it 10-20 years back. Again MOM and NEA must be blind. Have you seen some of the quarters for “who is building your HDBs”? At least Obama acknowledged and did something about the abuse at Guantánamo Bay. Do you know what was LHL admin’s response to the UN charges?
Again, I agreed Obama or any other figurehead we use for comparsion is not perfect. But pls don’t make a God out of your idol. Just find another Nobel Prize winner to support your case, not some GLC bootlickers.
@RED-man,
I left Singapore for a better paying job and i have not left Singapore for good and may even ponder to retire for the rest of my life in Singapore.Over the yrs i have seen how Singapore grows from progress to progress.Ever wonder how working life is under the reign of LKY.You must be one of those who belongs to the MP3 generation in which life is handed to you on a silver plater and has so much time on hands to talk about lack of freedom and human rights in Singapore.
I have no grand ideas to offer to the government as it has done a bloody good job for your country over the yrs.Just remember that no government in the world,not even US democrats is perfect.
Again I say your profiling skill sucks big time Preston. Silver plater? LOL. On contrary to what you want to believe. I started work early to pay for my own secondary school fees, books and ‘O’ level. When i was young, i even sold Papers, cardboard to earn extra cash for my allowances. I come from a single parent home and in a rental surviving on my mum two jobs’ income.
Don’t come and give us excuses how hard your time was when you left Singapore and your intention to come back Singapore to retire.
Talk is cheap like I said. Tough time good time, most of us are here are in Singapore. What do you know about Singapore progress? Until you come then you come and talk big to us.
If you don’t have grand idea, don’t be too quick to talk about OUR opposition. Like I said, your talk are basically empty like the PAP.
prestonloon
Just remember that no government in the world,not even US democrats is perfect.
…………………………
yet you says leekingyou is doin a good job? in what way? by promotin his son/nephews/nieces/daughterinLAWS?
in america do obama promote his wife to be the finacial main shopper or his youn son into fort knox as a general?
///.Ever wonder how working life is under the reign of LKY///
Preston, your talk are full of contradiction do you know that? What makes you think the current reign is not LKY?
///I have no grand ideas to offer to the government as it has done a bloody good job for your country over the yrs///
Bloody good job? In what sense? Big superficial beautiful city skyline? Casino? Night life?
For your info, I am from the attap house generation. Ever go to a toilet with a hole and pile to contain your shit below? I seen proverty myself and have to go watch colour TV at my Neighbour house when I was 4 y/o.
I don’t have to leave Singapore for better pay, and so does many Singapore who stay. I think this justified our right to decide if the PAP is F-up or are they really doing a good job. Save your shitty opinion for yourself and don’t come and talk cock to us.
I don’t think you ever go to a opposition rally before other than reading their speech from our LKY newspaper, especially the 2006 election. Contrary to your mentioned that opposition has nothing good to propose, they did said alot in 2006 that make the vote surged. It is rather the PAP that spoken nothing about how to make Singaporean life better but busy trying to make the opposition look bad. Yes, they are the one that stood lowly including the old man himself.
Instead of talking about how they would make Singaporean life better, our good LHL talk about fixing the opposition.
People who left for money and now that like any other FT who want to come back dig gold since Europe and US economy are falling. I don’t think it would be wise to listen to such people crap.
@RED-man,
Because of what PAP government has done for this country over the yrs,you are what you are now: don’t have to live in attap house,don’t have to do your bowel movement into a dip hole,do not have to sell card boards and papers and i guess your mom by now is retired comfortably, probably living in a Government-build flat and living off from the government invented CPF.There are a lot of ironies and ungratefulness in what you have written.Be grateful for things you have:the environment,public transportations,security,peaceful feeling,low crimes,having a job,etc,etc.
Take a look at countries like Haiti and many other nations in AFRICA.They have their independence long before us but look at their social and economic conditions,worse off than before when under their colonial masters.
Yes i have no hard feeling about coming back to Singapore to retire as it is in a different time now.My CPF is still intact,my HDB flat is well taken care by my parents.Nothing to complain about Singapore.
Preston
You sound as if I don’t have to work hard and my fortune just come with a snap of my fingers because we have PAP.
Moreover, if there is any credit to PAP. It is the effort of the previous team of PAP, not the current. In Chinese, there ia a saying, you can enjoy the shade of today tree it is because of the yesterday people.
As a quitter yourself, what you know about contribution to the country? A country capital is none other than it people. Without having the people thinking in line with the government and stay to work for the country,, the country administration would be asking for trouble and eventually seeking it doom.
One very good example to demonstrate the that the people is more important than the government is Hong Kong. They have been ruled by British for donkey years. What the British had been doing is to dig as much money and transfer it to their country before hand it over the china. Did you see the country turned into a Africa?
What I am very sure is, if Singapore is full of people like you who leave because of money. Well, put it this way. How much a good government effort put in to educate and groom a citizen would become a asset for the other country instead of contributing to their own. That’s the reason why i said of all people, people like you would be the worst person to tell us how our country should be lead.
Be it good or bad government, there is always successful story of it people in a country. So, don’t give the crap of without PAP, we don’t have this we don’t have that.
Finally, it is the people and not the PAP that this country will prosper, make no mistake.
@RED-man,
If given a choice,would you prefer to live in Hong Kong or Singapore?.The former is a madding crowd,more congested with foreign talents,more crimes,more pollution,more blood suckers,more social disorders,more skyscrapers,more floods,more poor people and lastly more quitters.
To say that a ruling government of any country has not part in making a country prosperous but only by its citizens is credulous.In another word,people living in Congo,Zimbabwe are to be blamed for their miseries and abject poverties but not their corrupt leaders.I believe nothing can convince you that our PM LHL is better than Obama.Like someone in the TOC forum says,’you are a card carrying hard core supporter of opposition parties.
Dear Preston,
If you are so impressed with the PAP, I suggest you come back immediately and smell the fresh air over here. The grass here is always clean and green. Why don’t you track Temasek and GIC investments and follow along their investments if you think they are always doing so well.
Please give up your high salary and bring your talents here and help to create some jobs for us. Please invest in the hot property market here, PAP say they are very affordable and world class standard.
Please help to make more babies for the PAP Army and the GDP overheating need your talent in Singapore. Since your parents are getting old also, why don’t you come back and keep them company.
Why don’t you come back and bring your money gamble a bit at the casino or park some money with the local banks like DBS.
Or help to make the foreign talents feel welcome by organizing events for them and help out at PAP activities, teach them some English. Maybe you can get a public service medal or National Day award.
Andrew
Why waste your breath on hypocrite? Enjoy your weekend better.
Well, at least i am still contribute back to my country don’t I? You can keep on talk and talk until the cow come home. Your credit frankly is ZERO.
@RED-man and Andrew Leung,
My time has not come yet to live in Singapore full-time.Lastly,nice to read your comments and thankfully both of you are only just an epitome of a minority who are yearning for an utopia run by any opp. party other than PAP.Have a nice weekend and sleep well without worrying you might get arrested by secret police forces.
preston loon, 5 November 2010
quote:
“I left Singapore for a better paying job and i have not left Singapore for good and may even ponder to retire for the rest of my life in Singapore.Over the yrs i have seen how Singapore grows from progress to progress.”
eh, if you do not experience the nitty-gritty what locals living here is facing, your words carry no weight. you are more socially mobile, have more choice, etc.
i too can make superficial comments on other countries, i too can say things look better at a distance. you may be too far to see the imperfections, you’re just commenting here to piss others off. if you’re not here in Sg now, you’ll likely never retire here. you’ll run out of cash sooner than you think.
it must be nice talking to your fellow countrymen from abroad. unaffected by the “imperfections” that S’poreans face daily, if this very govt, quote:
“the government as it has done a bloody good job for your country over the yrs.”
why dun you walk the talk & find a job here, work & enjoy all the good that you trumpet? i guess there are places “bloody better” or is it “bloody best”?
=P
preston loon, 6 November 2010
for a moment you made it sound that S’pore is so close to utopia under PAP till you say its not time to return. so obviously where you’re at is better by quite a margin to uproot yourself & stay put there.
Dear Preston,
Are you the Son of Lee Hsien Loong, the one who is to come, to sit on the throne of the Father.
Your time has not come yet, only when the Mentor is gone, then he will send for you, and you will not delay.
Come quickly and be crowned with glory and honor. Many will behold you and praise the Father.
He will set your enemies like a footstool for you to take your place.
The people and the PAP say come. They shall see you coming from the sky with many stewardesses and be glad.
///Have a nice weekend and sleep well without worrying you might get arrested by secret police forces.///
Excuse leh, we only accept well wishes from friends. Please go and wish your father LKY and your long lost brother LHL. Secret Police? Singapore got meh? I thought they are called ISD Leh. You stay outside Singapore too long alreadie, don’t waste your time and go fly kite lah.
By the way, I have ISD friend. You be surprise they also Du Lan your father LKY and Brother LHL. So, you don’t need to worry about us.
I think Singaporeans are missing the point here. The point is what they said. Nothing to do with US or Singapore. Nothing to do with how great or how bad US is. This is about the politicians. This is about people representing the people. How much Obama as a president of the most powerful nation on earth said the he still need to earn the trust of the people and how the little tiny dot nation’s SM said that what the heck is he doing serving small people who don’t appreciate the PAP. This is an example of how the politicians view their people. The US politicians know that they can be voted out anytime and they feel appreciative when they are voted in. The Singapore politicians feel that they deserve to be in their position because they are good and great, and not because of that small person on the street who voted them in. They are in there earning millions because they “deserve it”. They “serve” the people well. If you don’t appreciate it, they feel “hurt”. They never imaging that this is a democracy. They imaging this is Singapore Inc where they make money and do business. Not a government for the people, by the people, of the people. Singapore is a government for themselves, by themselves and of themselves. Please get the point and stop saying things like how screwed up US is and blah blah. There is no comparison. The comparison is in the way the politician feels, not how much the GDP of the country. If you want to compare, look at China. The government there is not even voted in but yet, they look at their own people. Of course, their problem is much bigger but Mr. Hu at least feel compassion for the people.
I found a lot of information on the blog. Waiting for more.
(First.. when did you move back to Kentucky? I am woefully underinformed. And HELLO!)