By Lisa Li
It was a passionate open discussion and debate on race issues that lasted for more than 3 hours, and continued over dinner at a coffee shop nearby.
“David Marshall–a Jew–was our elected Chief Minister in 1955, in the middle of Malay States! How come now Lee Kuan Yew says Singapore is not ready for a non-Chinese as our Prime Minister?” Lawyer M. Ravi asked the roomful of people, rhetorically.
Yes, there were the Maria Hertogh riots in 1950, between Malays and European/ Eurasian communities. Yes, there were riots in the 1960s between Chinese and Malays.
Yet, anecdotally, so many of us remember the 1950s, 60s and 70s as a time when our parents and grandparents lived and mingled with different races, spoke each other’s languages, and celebrated each other’s festivals–all without nudging from government regulations. The question we came back to repeatedly was: What went wrong in the last 20 years?
This is not to paint a completely gloomy picture. A forum participant pointed out that when she was travelling with friends, a foreigner correctly identified them as Singaporeans, because “Indian and Chinese travelling together… must be from Singapore!” This peaceful multicultural life has indeed been the experience for many of us as well, and it should not be taken for granted.
HDB’s Ethnic Integration Policy (EIP)
Source: pbase.com
One issue that many forum participants spoke about was HDB’s Ethnic Integration Policy (EIP) of ethnic quotas for public housing, a policy implemented in 1989 ‘to promote racial integration and harmony‘.
Some, like NSP Secretary-General Goh Meng Seng, felt that the ethnic quotas for public housing should remain. He cited his own experience in a Special Assistance Plan (SAP) school, which tends to be all-Chinese, and pointed out that racial enclaves of any sort could lead to stereotyping and division.
A teacher by the name of Sean also supported the ethnic quotas. He shared that when his students were given a choice to form their own groups, his students tended to gravitate toward their own race. With this parallel, he felt that people would tend to gravitate toward their race in housing. The forming of racial enclaves, in his opinion, would be detrimental to Singapore’s harmony.
Modification of the EIP?
However, Sean also suggested that the categories and quotas be re-examined and modified. The current HDB quota system has three categories: ‘Malay’, ‘Chinese’ and ‘Indian and Others’, so one modification could be to create another category for ‘Others’ instead of subjecting ‘Indian’ and ‘Others’ to the same quota.
It is worth noting that these HDB ethnic quotas were revised on 5 March 2010, yet they do not seem aligned with our current racial mix. The maximum ethnic limit in the neighbourhood for Chinese and Malay residents is approximately 10 percent higher than their actual percentage in Singapore’s resident population (2010), while the maximum ethnic limit for ‘Indians and Others’ is 0.5 percent less than the actual percentage in resident population (2010).
Given that the population of ‘Others’ has increased from 46,400 (1.4 percent) in 2000 to 125,800 people (3.3 percent) in 2010, shouldn’t the HDB’s ethnic quotas and categories kept pace with this trend in Singapore’s racial mix?
Another suggestion by a forum participant was to keep the concept of ethnic quota, but to relax it further. He asked: If we can allow blocks to have 80 percent Chinese and 20 percent Indian occupants (as a loose estimate), why not allow blocks to have 80 percent Indian and 20 percent Chinese occupants? This would loosen the quota to give people more choice of housing, while still preventing the formation of racial enclaves.
Mr Alsagoff, another forum participant, questioned the assumption that the removal of ethnic quotas would result in the formation of racial enclaves.
He explained that in the past, many Malays congregated in Geylang Serai due to their work on Alsagoff plantations. His view was that most people tended to choose their housing location based on economic reasons, that is, the location of their work or housing prices, not necessarily because they wanted to live with people of the same race.
EIP: The creation of differential pricing based on race
For a quick look at the current EIP situation, The Online Citizen spoke to two recent buyers of HDB flats.
A few years ago, Tay Jin En was browsing for flats in a particular district that had reached the Chinese quota. Based on information from her housing agent, she recalls that “Malays [were] selling at valuation price because they could only sell to other Malays” but “Chinese sellers who freed up the Chinese quota could set almost any price they wanted”. As a result, some of these Chinese-owned flats were priced at $80,000 over valuation.
K, an Indian Singaporean, is also a recent flat buyer. The district she preferred had not reached the quota limit for ‘Indian and Others’, so she was able to select from buyers of different races. She felt that the buying market was to her advantage because non-Chinese flats tended to be cheaper. However, she acknowledged that if the Chinese quota limit was reached, she would have to be patient in order to find an Indian buyer for her flat.
The implicit problem here is if buyers do not have the patience for this, for example in cases where flat owners default on mortgage payments. Those caught in such financial difficulties are forced to either quickly sell it on the open market (subject to ethnic quota restrictions) or have their flats seized by HDB at 90 percent of the market valuation price.
Parliamentary Secretary for National Development Mohamad Maliki Osman
When questioned about this in Parliament by Nominated MP Viswa Sadasivan, Parliamentary Secretary for National Development Mohamad Maliki Osman asserted that “sellers who are affected by the EIP limits should have no problem finding buyers from the eligible ethnic groups as long as they are realistic in setting their asking price… There are sellers who are affected by EIP restrictions, who are able to sell at…even $30,000 above market valuation.”(Click here for the Parliamentary exchange)
The PAP government’s unwillingness to admit that EIP can negatively affect public housing prices based on race merely sweeps it under the carpet. At the very least, they need to admit that some Singapore do suffer under these race-based policies in order to genuinely discuss how to minimize these problems.
Moving beyond racial divisions
Another feature of Singapore today would be the increasing number of inter-ethnic marriages. In 2010 (based on records from the Women’s Charter and the Muslim Law Act), there were 4,928 inter-ethnic marriages, that is, 20 percent of the total number of marriages for the year.
Perhaps in response to this trend, it was announced in January 2010 that a child of mixed heritage would be allowed to take on either a double-barrelled race, the father’s race, or the mother’s race. However, in cases where two people with double-barrelled race classifications marry, they will have to choose two of the four races to be declared as their child’s race.
To add on to this over-simplification of race, the current HDB EIP Policy states that “only the first race component of a double-barrelled race will be used. For example, for an individual with double-barrelled race of “Indian-Chinese”, only Indian will be used.”
Does it make sense for a Singaporean child who, having a Malay-Eurasian father and a Dutch-Chinese mother, is officially classified as Malay-Dutch, and therefore is subjected to HDB’s ‘Malay’ quota and all its restrictions in the name of preventing racial enclaves?
As Singapore becomes increasingly racially ambiguous and cosmopolitan, is our classification of race and ethnic quota for housing slowly but surely becoming a farce?
And given Singaporeans’ general mobility in this geographically small island, are we really in danger of forming racial enclaves, lacking in understanding and friendship with other races whom we interact with on a daily basis in school, at work, and everywhere else?
This article is the second part in a two-part article about Race Issues in Singapore. The first part was about the need for great discussion of race, based on reports by Dr James Gomez (presented on 12 February) and UN Rapporteur Mr Githu Muigai.
This article was written after conversation with Mr Alsagoff, Sean, Rakesh, Sha Najak, Nina Chabra and Roderick.
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if Singapore wants mature and open debate then vote out the repressive PAP and the media lapdogs
OH wait,, how to vote out repression???
From the experiences of England, Germany, Holland and some other countries in Europe, minorities form enclaves which soon become ghettoes.
The present government policy regarding racial mix in housing is sensible.
“The idea was that people would assimilate. The danger is that the assimilation process is so slow that for many it is just not possible.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/sep/01/race.world
I think the speakers point out correctly that racial quota for HDB is NOT a farce. however, there is room for improvement (which they have also pointed out).
Having said that, this should be the ONLY quota in existence for all policies.
I say a big NO to Singaporean Singapore.
You must learn to live with diversity instead of asking the Malays to give up Islam in order to homogenise the population.
I therefore say UNITY IN DIVERSITY
Regards
Dr Syed Alwi
Dr Syed Alwi
Can I ask you to clarify on your post’s relevance to HDB racial quota?
note that the quota does NOT ask muslims to give up islam (just the same as it does not ask Taoists to give up burning their joss papers)
The ethnic quota system for public housing is nothing but a ploy to ensure a Chinese majority in every constituency and to prevent the minority races from electing a representative of their choice.
If you really support the ethnic quota system,then you must also believe that there should not be any Chinatown in the world.
Dr Syed Alwi,
I noted your position in this forum and others.
If you chose to remain stagnant, you will be left behind by the world…
Years ago, even the different dialect groups of the Chinese tried to maintain their identity… They failed and now among the Chinese, dialect is a non issue…
Even the so-called Malay now is not the same as the Malay 20 or 30 years ago… when people identified themselves as Boyanese, Bugis and etc… Now, they have come under a broad term Malay…
All these identities Malay, Chinese or Indians will evolve….
My suggestion to your, Dr Syed, do not stand in the way of history…. it will not stop there just for you…
Hypocrisy,
Chinatown, like Little India, is simply where businesses whose target market is a specific race, congregate. Nothing to do with where they live.
I don’t see it as hypocrisy at all. If you settle the ‘where they live’ issue, everything else is not that important anymore (with regards to racial blindness), include where specific business are gathered. It’s just a economic behaviour, not unlike Sim Lim square.
There is no reason why Chinatown cannot have a greater racial mix. As lobo76 mentioned, it’s more a business area. Frankly, since you want to talk about the world, not every Chinese person in their respective countries stays there, do they?
As for maintaining a majority so minorities cannot vote who they want….I know that there are quite a lot of Chinese people who can’t vote who they want too. So….does that mean the majority are subjugating the majority as well as a the minority by having the majority? Plus, if you did read what was said, it was mentioned that it should be adjusted, and there should be a higher percentage allocated to minorities. So….I don’t see the problem there, really.
Dear meiming,
Do not play with fire. The Non-Muslims had better NOT make unreasonable demands regarding Islam among the Malays.
That was why LKY’s remarks regarding Islam and the Malays received such a strong response from the Malay community.
We Muslims do not impose on you – and in return – you better not impose on us your beliefs etc. Islam is numero uno for the Malays. Do NOT touch Islam.
Regards
Dr Syed Alwi
As long as we respect each other, it matters not what is our religion or how religious we are. With respect comes trust.
Let us not impose our views (religious or otherwise) on others. As long as moral and ethical boundaries are not cross – let us live and let live.
Dear Dr Syed,
Do not put words in my or anyone’s mouth.
Read my words again and response to the points raised.
I have no less than few hundred colleagues and friends, who are muslims. In the course of our interactions, those points that u raised never came to our mind.
I attended my muslims friends funeral. I was there when they cleaned up the dead body of my friend. I sat by the side of his family members when they did the prayer. I also attended many of their hari raya and wedding celebrations
My muslim friends also attended my father’s funeral. They burnt and held joss sticks as well. But, in no way I think they have compromised their religions. What have u got to say…
Lets wake up… No one is going to force or compel another to change…
I am just asking you do not stand in the way of history… If u r still not convinced, take a look at north africa or middle east…
Dear meiming,
What do you mean by do not stand in the way of history ? And so what about the Mid-East ?
Just don’t you ever mention Singaporean Singapore because it implies a dilution of Islam.
Don’t talk nonsense here. Go learn the history of ASEAN first before you talk.
Regards
Dr Syed Alwi
@meiming,
I think you have a shallow understanding of Islam or how the world works. Please don’t just see the world as the PAP would like you to.
“We Muslims do not impose on you – and in return – you better not impose on us your beliefs etc. Islam is numero uno for the Malays. Do NOT touch Islam.” Syed Alwi
There is a confusion here between what is race and what is religion.
If you read carefully no one is calling upon the Malays to give up on Islam.
Singapore is a secular democratic country, the constitution upholds the freedom of religion and freedom of speech.
We need to differentiate between race and religion. One’s race can’t be changed but it is not unusual to change one’s religion.
There are non-Malays who become Muslims in Singapore.
http://www.darul-arqam.org.sg/dqv2/web/cms/detailed_subpage.asp?topic=INTRODUCTION TO ISLAM&ancat=&antype=Introduction&aid=ART00065-2007&pn=1
And, there are Muslims who left Islam. This is secular democracy in action.
The Malay/Muslim concept was coined by the British (and adopted by the PAP) as a policy of divide and rule.
Dear AL,
99.6% of Malays are Muslims. The Malays place a premium on Islam and they do NOT share the same world-view and aspiration as you. The Malay tastebud is heavily influenced by Islam.
You just have to learn to accept diversity and NOT expect the Malays to give up Islam as LKY did.
Regards
Dr Syed Alwi
Dr Syed,
Lets talk sense, I am surprised with your choice of language and your tone..
Let me answer you point by point:
You asked, “What do you mean by do not stand in the way of history?” What I meant is “you may choose to stick to your belief. But do not try to impose your thinking on others or claim that whatever you said represent other people as well.”
You asked, “And so what about the Mid-East ?” I meant that middle east is undergoing a tremendous change. People who tried to force to control the mind and belief of the people are being brought down…
You said, “Just don’t you ever mention Singaporean Singapore because it implies a dilution of Islam.” My answer to you is “ha ha.. if not Singaporean Singapore that whose Singapore?”
You said, “Don’t talk nonsense here. Go learn the history of ASEAN first before you talk.” My reply is “Alamak, you dare to put your title as Dr and spoke in this manner..”
May I invite you also give a point to point reply to my earlier comments.
Hi Dr Syed,
I am curious to find out if a Malay can choose to give up his muslim faith or not? And if he does, are there any repercussions? If he doesn’t, should he not have the freedom to choose his own faith?
Hey vintact, I’m not Dr Syed, and I’m not Malay, but I’m an ex Muslim, and I know for certain that Malays in Singapore can and do give up their Muslim faith. They do have the freedom to choose their own faith, as long as they are 21 years of age and above. For those below 21, I’m not so sure. Anyway, this is Singapore; even if one doesn’t go through the legal formalities of renouncing your religion, one can simply change their religion instantaneaously by adopting different beliefs and habits; there is no religious police that will come after you.
As for repercussions, I’ve been lucky so far and haven’t faced any. But I think that if there any repercussions faced by ex Muslims, they would be legal issues (specifically inheritance) as well as social issues (such as hostility from Muslim relatives and friends). Compared to other countries, these are mild consequences. However, that doesn’t mean they don’t need to be addressed either.
By the way, I strongly disagree with the often cited statistic that 99.6% of the Malays are Muslims. In my personal experience (which is just that), there are many Malays who do not believe in Islam, or believe in a form of religion that is radically different from orhtodox Islam. They just did not bother to go through the legal formalities of renouncing their religion.
Anyway, what does the original article have to do with Islam/ religion/ Singaporean Singapore? This Dr Syed fellow seems to be overreacting to MM Lee’s comments by spamming several threads and waging an online war against the Singaporean Singapore even when it has only a tangential relevance to the original article. It’s also strange that he’s taken it upon himself to speak on behalf of all the Malays in Singapore, when it’s clear that not all Malays place the same level of importance to religion that Dr Syed claims.
I guess my main point to Dr Syed is this:
While it’s fair for you to say, “You just have to learn to accept diversity and NOT expect the Malays to give up Islam”, you need to reciprocate and follow your own advice. In other words, you just have to learn to accept the increasing diversity WITHIN the Malay community, and not expect that the ALL of the Malays will ALWAYS want to be Muslims.
What MM Lee said was incredibly stupid and senseless, I agree 100% with you on that. As our MM, he was way, WAY out of line encouraging this or that group to be less religious. The Malays have the right to practise their religion in whatever way they deem fit. This is called freedom of religion, and it is a fundamental human right.
On the other hand, when you make comments like “The Malays place a premium on Islam and they do NOT share the same world-view and aspiration as you” and “Islam is numero uno for the Malays”, you come dangerously close to doing the same yourself. I’ve known some non-Muslim Malays who are fed up with this widespread conflation of “Muslim” with “Malay”.
Perhaps in future, if you wish to highlight that Islam is central to the lives of a group of persons, it would be better if you label the group accurately as “Muslims” rather than “Malays”. Thus, “the Muslims place a premium on Islam” and “Islam is numbero uno for the Muslims”. That way, you will not sound like you are imposing a religion on a group of people like MM Lee did.
“You just have to learn to accept diversity and NOT expect the Malays to give up Islam as LKY did.” Syed Alwi
You are wrong Syed, somehow you don’t quite understand English. No one is asking the Malays (or for the matter Muslims) to leave Islam.
You might want to read the report on MM Lee’s ‘Hard Truths’
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110123/wl_asia_afp/singaporepeopleleehistorybook
You have also mistook Singapore, a secular democracy, for a Caliphate.
You seemed to be a self-appointed representative of the Malay community on Islam. But on record there are at least 74 sects within Islam, which sect do you represent? http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/sectr1.htm
@ex muslim, thatnks for your posts. With reference to this statement:
“…there are many Malays who…believe in a form of religion that is radically different from orhtodox Islam. They just did not bother to go through the legal formalities of renouncing their religion.”
I know many Muslims, Malay ones included, who have no time for ‘orthodox Islam’. Just the other day, I was reading a book which cited a Lebanese Muslim scholar of Islam who would have described such Muslims as those who are able to distinguish between:
1. the rules for governing the early Muslim communities in the Arabian peninsula and that were formulated for harmonious living appropriate for the circumstances of that time; and,
2. the rules of Islam that have an enduring validity and which Muslims share universally with all other ethnic and religious cultures – these are the eternal truths that are contained in Islam.
#1 traps you in time; #2 helps you to continue to make reform and progress in exactly the spirit that the Prophet Mohamed began his reforms among the warring Arab tribes who were creating havoc. It is partially a matter of interpretation, or the lack of it (ie. literalism). Abandonment of #1 doesn’t have to mean abandonment of Islam as the Islamofascists would have you believe, because the spirit of the Prophet lives on in an individual whose focus is on #2.
I think that it might be the failure to distinguish between the two that is the at the crux of the conflict between Islamofascists like Alwi and Muslims who practise a more holistic Islam.
@Alwi, you said to meiming:
“Do not play with fire. The Non-Muslims had better NOT make unreasonable demands regarding Islam among the Malays.”
There you go as usual conjuring up inter-religious conflict where none exists. Exactly what demands was meiming making that you would respond with that unmistakably veiled threat of possible violence?
(Another very recent example of Alwi’s similar proclivities for the benefit of readers: “If you hate Arabs, that means that you also hate the Prophet because he was Arab. Subtext: You have just insulted the Prophet, and haven’t we all heard about the violence that has ensued whenever that is alleged to have happened?)
Don’t Islamofascists like you have nothing better to do than to go around causing enmity?
I have been trying so hard to get people to drop any hostilities that they might have against Muslims. But people like you do not help, and I will definitely stand up to bullies like you because I DO NOT recognize you as the spokesman for all of Islam.
By all means, be a part of these discussions because, as someone who believes in democracy and free speech, I believe in your right to free expression.
But you need to grow up and accept that you are not going to get agreement from everyone when you participate in a democratic exercise. And when that disagreement happens, you NEVER respond with veiled threats.
To my Muslim brothers & sisters,
Singapore is a Non-Muslim country governed by a single, Non-Muslim political party. Muslims account for only – at most – 15 % of the population.
I guess if you want a Muslim-friendly environment – then you may just have to migrate to a Muslim country. For me – I intend to retire in Muslim Malaysia.
I am UMNO in spirit and I make no apologies for that. I know that as a Muslim – I should not be following Non-Muslim leadership as – in the end – they will ask you to give up Islam just like LKY did.
Hidup UMNO !
Best Regards
Dr Syed Alwi
@Alwi:
1. “Singapore is a Non-Muslim country governed by a single, Non-Muslim political party.”
And exactly why should ANY country, Muslim majority or otherwise, be governed by a Muslim political party?
Are Mulsims, by virtue of the Islamic and Muslim exceptionalism that you Islamofascists are claiming for yourselves, inherently better equipped to govern a modern state?
2. “I guess if you want a Muslim-friendly environment – then you may just have to migrate to a Muslim country.”
Wrong!
If Muslims want a Muslim-friendly environment, then better be prepared to return the same friendly environment to non-Muslims.
Exactly as the Quran has commanded.
3. “For me – I intend to retire in Muslim Malaysia.”
Go then.
And don’t try any and have any influence in an environment like Singapore that even Muslims don’t want any different from what it is now.
Dear Robox,
In the case of Singapore, there should be a Muslim political party that represents SOLELY the Muslim community. That is how Muslims should be governed in a Non-Muslim country.
As for having an influence on Singapore – may I politely remind you that LKY himself – since 1996 – has several times alluded to a possible RE-MERGER with Malaysia.
Let me publicly tell everyone now – the notion of an independent Singapore is NOT viable in the medium term. And LKY knows this.
Whether you like it or not – the issue of RE-MERGER with Malaysia WILL re-surface again in the near future.
Singapore has nowhere else to go – except back into the arms of Muslim Malaysia.
So yes – I will retire in Malaysia. And when that day comes when Singapore asks for a re-merger – I will be around to ensure that Singapore firsts – accept Muslim Leadership.
Good luck to you Robox.
Best Regards
Dr Syed Alwi
Dr Syed Alwi
You are beginning to sound like a radical…
@lobo76:
“…beginning to sound like a radical…”
Beginning? He’s always been a radical. An extremist, really. And let’s name his brand of politics – it’s NOT religion – for what it is: IslamoFASCISM, a brand of fascism not different from Hitler’s or Lee Kuan Yew’s Confucianazism.
Except that this is one brand of fascism is closely connected to the spawning of the terrorism that has become a scourge today.
Men like Alwi, men in their 40s and 50s, are only too content to send disenfranchised and disillusioned young Muslim men in their twenties to their deaths by propogating the ideology that they do.
But these cowardly men in their 40s and 50s don’t have an ounce of the balls to send themselves out to their own deaths despite their fervent claim to believe in the ideology that they espouse.
@Alwi:
1. “In the case of Singapore, there should be a Muslim political party that represents SOLELY the Muslim community.”
I happen to believe that Muslims can be represented in Parliament by a sole body. But I don’t think that it can ever be feasibly done by a Muslim political party. There are other ways that that representation can be done and it is only limited by your imagination.
And BTW, what do you mean by “representation of Muslims”? Only Islamofascists like yourself or the entire diversity of Muslims including gay Muslims?
2. “Whether you like it or not – the issue of RE-MERGER with Malaysia WILL re-surface again in the near future.”
I think it is more likely to be a an ASEAN Union rather than Malaysia that we would clamour for, especially after the bad example of governance towards non-Muslims that a Muslim majority government has set in Malaysia.
Dear lobo76 and Robox,
No – I am NOT a radical. That is how politics is done throughout the Muslim world. In Malaysia – you have PAS and UMNO. I happen to support UMNO because they make a lot of sense. PAS is much much more fundamentalist than UMNO.
As for an ASEAN community – well – dream on ! You cannot even get the Iskandar Development Region going and neither can you get the Singapore-Johor-Riau (Sijori) Growth Triangle going ! You know why ? CULTURAL INCOMPATIBILITY. You are just too Westernised for Malay-Muslim taste-buds.
Finally to Robox – sorry but Islam does NOT accept LGBT. You can be gay and Muslim BUT you cannot demand that Islam be reformed to accept the LGBT phenomena. A gay Muslim will just have to admit that he or she is a bad Muslim. There are many UNEQUIVOCAL verses in the Quran and Hadith that condemns LGBT. So to me – if a Muslim happens to be gay – then he or she is a bad Muslim. But what you cannot do – is ask for a reform of Islam in order to legitimise LGBT. That cannot be done.
Regards
Dr Syed Alwi
” A gay Muslim will just have to admit that he or she is a bad Muslim.”
Likewise, a Muslim who propogates the idelogy that spawns terrorism just has to admit that he is an evil Muslim.
Dr Syed Alwi 18 February 2011
No – I am NOT a radical. That is how politics is done throughout the Muslim world.
So? Who cares how/what is done in the Muslim world. We are talking about the World (includes Muslim, but not just Muslims).
Why do you think we have the racial quota issue? It is because there are different ‘worlds’ and they are sharing the same space. To look at only one aspect of the ‘world’ and demanding everyone else share the same view is what made me call you a radical.
To reiterate, you do NOT have to be less a Muslim. The ONLY one who wants that is MM Lee, and no one else…lest they haven’t said it out loud.
Racial quota by itself only facilitates people to know one another (including their religion). NO ONE is asking for a dilution of values.
Whether you have the right to control other Muslims, that is a separate issue.
Alwi has a tendency to hijack any thread that is remotely related to his ‘religion’, and make it all about his own Islamofascist politics.
That has happened here as well, and we, those who have been truly disadvantaged by the EIP financially, have not even managed to have a say in this matter.
There are many things that those I am normally aligned with politically have said in this article that I actually disagree with.
But do I have the space that an Islamofascist constantly hijacks to have my say?
I don’t have any more time now to have my say on the EIP, but if this thread wil remain visible enough for me later, I might.
Robox, thanks for that distinction between type 1 and type 2 Muslims. I couldn’t have described it better. Although I’m an atheist, I still feel an affinity for the latter group to thrive amidst voices like Syed’s.
I’ve always thought that the Muslims in Singapore were pretty progressive, especially compared to Muslims in other parts of Asia. That’s why views like those espoused by Syed bother me; the whole “you’re not a real Muslim if you don’t follow my brand of Islam” mentality threatens to undo what Singaporean Muslims have achieved.
It’s funny how Syed and Lee are actually more alike than they realise. Lee drew a line on religiosity and says that if you’re on the wrong side of that line, you’re a bad citizen. Syed draws a line on religiosity too, but says that if you’re on the wrong side of that line, you’re a bad Muslim. Between minority voices like Lee and Syed, it’s no wonder that some people distrust Muslims and think that one cannot be a good Muslim and a good Singaporean at the same time.
If the numerically dominant Malay population had followed the same racist policy as the Chinese in Singapore in the past few decades, Singapore would never have a Chinese majority and the racist Chinese will have to learn to live with the accomodating Malays instead of turning Singapore into one large ovrpopulated Chinatown.
Hi ex muslim, when you say that you ‘still feel an affinity for the latter group to thrive amidst voices like Syed’s’, I think that you might be saying what I said in a recent discussion on the SDP website in which Alwi was involved. There, I said that Islam is inherently far more universalistic thatn the particularistic brand proposed by Alwi. Non-Muslims already have so much in common with Islam and Muslims.
Why are thare people so intent on destroying that common humanity that we share?
Hi Robox,
I cannot agree with u more. Recently, I applied for senior citizen bus pass. In the column of “Race”, I simply wrote “Singaporean”. I felt so good about it. Our blood, our bones and our teeth are of the same colour.
Stop looking as issues from race perspective. Stop making remarks. We have clever ones, stupid ones, rich ones,poor ones, good ones and bad ones in every cultural or ethnic groups.
Help those who are weak and poor regardless of race, creed. Deal firmly with the bad ones regardless of race and creed.
People who have ulterior motives tried to make us stick to our so-called different ethnic groups and religious groups… So that they could manipulate us….
All Singaporeans are brothers and sisters…
Syed Alwi,
Good news for Muslims who are gay and still want to stay within Islam.
“British gay Muslims seek Islamic weddings”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12486003
In fact, Islam is much more tolerant than, say Christianity, of same-sex relation.
Before the emergence of radical Islam (Muslim brotherhood), the Egyptian city of Siwa has for centuries legitimized and celebrated marriages between Muslim men. No other community has done more to suppress heterosexual behavior thereby making homosexuality the norm.
Just in other religions, Islam has its progressives.
HDB quota only benefits the majority race in this racist state
PAP’s agenda is clear: they do not want racial enclaves that might threaten PAP’s hegemony. But they have to contend with the fact that it is discriminatory, especially against the minority races, and is causing negative sentiments amongst them. Now that does not bode well for PAP’s agenda anyway.
Dr Syed Alwi said “Singapore has nowhere else to go – except back into the arms of Muslim Malaysia. So yes – I will retire in Malaysia. And when that day comes when Singapore asks for a re-merger – I will be around to ensure that Singapore firsts – accept Muslim Leadership”
Reading this statement from Dr Syed Alwi reminded me of the same message said by the first prime minister of Malaysia after Singapore kick out from the federation “Singapore will be coming back to us… she will beg us to be part of the federation again, and when that day happen we will teach her a lesson” but hey look, where we are now. We have proven Malaysia wrong and we will continue to prove her wrong.
I never believe the stats :- 99% malays are muslim. I am an ex-muslim myself, if you see two of us here, you can rest assured, there are many more like us. I believe its time for the non muslims malays to rise and make their present felt, and show Dr Syed how wrong he is.
Ethnic quota in Singapore housing is turning every neighbourhood and housing blocks into Chinese-majority enclaves.
I think its against HUMAN NATURE.