Leong Sze Hian
Mr Tan (not his real name) came to see me recently at the one-on-one financial counselling (every Thursday 8 pm to 10 pm) at Blk 108, Potong Pasir Ave 1.
He is 50-years old and a divorcee. He has been given one-hour visitation rights every weekend with his two children. According to Mr Tan, as his wife’s monthly income is about $6,000, he does not have to pay any monthly maintenance to her or the children.
No spouse, no children, no HDB, no CPF?
As the divorce court order was that the HDB flat which he co-owned with his ex-wife be entirely given to her, although he had contributed 60 per cent of the monies for the flat. he had nowhere to stay. The CPF which he has utilised for the flat, is also entirely given to his ex-wife. So, he approached the HDB and his Member of Parliament for help to rent a HDB flat.
As he has been unable to find a full-time job, he has been working part-time, and earns about $1,400 or less a month.
No cash to pay rental or COV, no housing loan?
The HDB informed him that as a divorcee, his housing options are to rent a room or a flat in the open market, noting that he has sufficient CPF savings to buy a flat.
The HDB’s reply to him said: “We have assessed your application and note that you have sufficient CPF savings for home ownership flat. Hence, please consider using the CPF savings for the option of buying a flat within your means.”
The cheapest room that he has been able to find is about $500, and the cheapest rental for a flat is around $1,500.
As his CPF Ordinary Account balance is only about $140,000, it is not enough to buy any resale flat in the open market. No bank will lend him a HDB housing loan, because his income is below their minimum household income requirement of about $2,000. (Note: HDB bank loan interest rates are now at around one per cent per annum, compared to HDB loans at 2.6 per cent.)
Also, the minimum HDB housing loan that the banks require is about $100,000, and Mr Tan does not have cash to pay for the Cash-over-valuation (COV) that practically every HDB 2 or 3-room flat seller would ask for.
The cheapest HDB resale flat that he has been able to find is about $280,000, with at least $15,000 COV.
Normally, in financial counselling, for such cases, we may suggest to people like Mr Tan to try to apply to the HDB for a second HDB loan, on the grounds that no bank is willing to offer a housing loan.
However, in Mr Tan’s case, as the maximum tenure of a HDB loan is until age 65, the monthly mortgage repayment for a $140,000 HDB loan (assuming the cheapest 3-room flat at $280,000 less his $140,000 CPF) at 2.6 per cent for 15 years, is about $940.
Therefore, it may be pointless for Mr Tan to apply, because how can he afford to pay $940, when his income is less than $1,400?
In the debate in Parliament in 2002, to allow banks to offer HDB housing loans, members of the house were given the assurance that Singaporeans will not be disadvantaged by this change in the legislation.
As Mr Tan was in a ‘homeless’ situation, he was offered a room in a shared 3-room flat at Blk 29, Havelock Road, at $250 a month, under the Interim Housing Scheme.
I understand from previous tenants under the Interim Housing Scheme that when their initial temporary lease is up, which in Mr Tan’s case is 5.5 months, they may be “pressured” with a rental increase to around $400 which is the normal rate, or to move out to rent in the open market.
Of course, he can try to apply for a HDB rental flat, if he can find another single Singaporean male age 35 and above to share the flat, whose combined monthly income with him is not more than $1,500.
So, in his case, he would have to find another flat-mate who must also meet all the HDB rental eligibility criteria, and whose income is not more than $100 a month since Mr Tan’s salary is already S$1,400 a month.
By the way, I understand that the waiting list for rental flats is in the thousands, and the typical waiting time is more than a year.
According to the Department of Statistics, the number of divorces and annulments has risen to a record high of 7,386 against 26,081 marriages in 2009. http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/themes/people/marriages.pdf
So, given the HDB’s policies on divorcees, how many divorcees may have housing woes like Mr Tan?
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for a single 50ear ole single singapoorium with more than $150,000 in his cpf accounts..he is still homeless?
is this the kind of government you 1st?
vote PAP if you believed this 50 ear ole single man should be homeless
HAV SAVIN..but no roof…
~sigh~
Looks like Mr Tan has no choice but to accept the room under the Interim Housing Scheme. In the meantime, he can try to look for alternatively accomodation. Rental rates are high. He may have to stay there indefinitely.
Being Elites, when they are drafting policies for public housing schemes, how could we expect our Elites to anticipate situations like this? Here’s why…
1. Elites normally don’t divorce
2. Elites normally don’t stay in HDB
flats
3. Elites normally earn much more
4. Elites normally mix with successful
people and not divorcees
5. Elites normally don’t share a house
other singles.
I am disillusioned with greedy human nature. i did my part as a more awaken citizen, i will not say that much for the time being as a boycott to lop-sided situation and to punish people fearing the authorities, their threats, and also their scare, their insecurities, their false glories and people still supporting them. they are misled yes but at the same time they are not well informed and well judged so unknowingly becomes selfish, probably too busy to cope with house loans, car loans and bills and taxes and family commitments, but still it is no excuse maybe
This main sheepy group which is blinded by traditional media is not helping themselves and next generations and the children will blame them. Let the damage to the nation be greater then hopefully still can remedy. but I still hope the people wake up in time. The balance is lost between helping people and
Making money
I bear the responsibilities as a citizen for not helping but I hope my words above can sparkle more people to socially responsible and correct the incorrect and right the wrongs. Unburden the fake accounts of the reserve. Uncover the hypocrisy of those rich and in power or rather those selfish.
By then the situation might be even worst, but I am also punished as I am also part of the worsen debt ridden people.
I can’t be sick or unemployed for the next 30years for my hdb loans similarly. Balloted 3 times could not get. Over 36 of age already recently then get. Most of my friends ladies and guys due to cost of livings did not get marry, also most of the youngsters in their 30s haven’t married.
See the unemployment 2.x percentage news before election I wanted to laugh as the satistics should be incorrect thanks to traditional media. I guess more than 5 percent as many people are still struggling, havin part time job and also given up hope, driving taxi or doing real estate or financial adviser, now also not easy and more and more regulations and tougher and more stressful. What a life what a democracy what a crap what the hack
S
(moderation preview) 0 mins ago
Not discriminated against any professions above and they are honest livings and must be hard working(or bait smarter) But the monoPolized industries by gov makes me think we are short changed and our future generations will be physical ans mental slaves to the corporations, mps, ministers and govs.
Pls do Promote online medias like facebook, yahoo news comments, twitter, msn, yahoo messenger, skype, yahoogroups, forum like http://www.goldclubasia.com, toc website, tr website, hardware zones forum, emails, and hardwarezone forum before election. Pls do yr part also thanks and cheers
When the PAP MP asked, what the opposition can for the the SPOREAN.
I believe Mr Tan must have approach
his “USELESS MP” too, have it not for the Mr Leong to highlight such cases that the PAP MP are also POWERLESS and USELESS”
Mr SPOREAN solution is to get the VOTE so that the new govt WILL and CAN defeat such HDB policies and Family court big fat salry YES man because we are going to give every OPPOSITION a chance to serve us with proper checks and proper debate on every issues that effected all Sporeans.
VOTE for the new govt.
You die your own business!
Uniquely Singapore!
You have money but it’s all tied up. No choice but to go BEGGING for help. They listen but no one hears…
tauhuayboy.wordpress.com/2010/04/30/come-on-dr-vivian-balakrishnan-whats-the-real-story
The fact of this case reminds me of a case I personally come across before the last election.
Your present case is only a tip of the iceberg.
A divorcee staff working in my office, had applied to buy a HDB flat but failed because she had owned a private property as co-owner with her ex-hubby.
She then tried to apply for approval to buy a resale 3-roomed flat from the open market with HDB loan.
She and her two grown-up daughters have had to sleep in the living room of her kind sister’s HDB flat for many years while waiting for HDB to approve her application to buy her own HDB flat or to buy a resale HDB flat with HDB loan.
Her applications to buy her HDB flat, was disqualfied because of her ex-husband’s having bought a private property. She was named a co-owner.
In the letter I wrote for her to HDB, I mentioned that she should not be victimized because of her her husband using her name to buy a private property.
I posed to HDB the question whether her husband’s private property loan default which resulted in rejection of bank loan should cause her to lose the loan entitlement from HDB as well.
I told the HDB suggesting that her case deserved humanitarian consideration and if the regular officer in charge had no authority to approve it on such ground, he should at least put it up to appropriate offer at the higher level who could make decision to solve such a problem due to HDB’s policy causing her plight.
Two weeks later, she received the approval to buy the 3-roomed resale flat with HDB loan.
You see, MBT in making the decision to privatise public housing should know full well that such a policy is going to cause a lot of problems to people with differring circumstances.
There are a lot of people caught in predicaments and made to suffer.
The lower-level staff are made to cope with such exceptional cases on their own.
The MPs are helpless because MPs have to follow the rules.
His so-called affordable housing and looking into exceptions and humanitarian cases on merit are full of empty promises.
I am very sure that our MPs can help because of certain situation which clearly deserve help.
But, in my ex-staff’s case, MP wrote two appeals which were turned down by HDB.
The lack of consideration for the above-mentioned human plight is solvable. One has to be a maverick and tackle HDB head-on telling the humanitarian situation as it is to the face of HDB CEO at election time with uncompromising dare to expose the plight caused to the outside world.
If we want to change, we can. We need people in parliament who would push for change in the making of big policies to take into considerations the array of exceptions caused by big money-making privatising approach by ministers like him.
Try this method. It works.
@USELESS MP
The case highlighted is in Potong Pasir and hence the useless MP is Chiam See Tong. Yes, lets vote out the useless MP (or his wife) and get some real change in. Agree with you totally on this.
PAP standing ground = NO WELFARE system.
PAP suggestion = Live in JB.
PAP policies = no worries, short of one “failure” singaporean, just add one more foreigner tomorrow (talented some more)
Case closed… NEXT !
Leong did some good analysis but as usual it is one-sided and seek to paint a specific view……
Here’s another possible view:
The new HDB are priced @ $92K (2-room) and $158K (3-room) onwards (e.g. The Hougang Parkview and Montreal Ville BTO projects).
If he really cannot wait for BTO, then look resale. BTW, there are also resale 2-room flats at $200K and even in Toa Payoh, there are 2-room flats for $220K. At $200K purchase price and loan of $100K (min loan amt by bank), his monthly payment assuming interest rate at 2.6% over 15 years is $671. There is a chance he could afford this base on his salary of $1500 and with $40K in his CPF to service the loan (enough to service 5 years of the loan purely on CPF assuming no new CPF contribution).
It is not advisable for him to go for a 3-room flat esp in the “prime” area like Bishan Tao Payoh since he is now living alone.
Life is always tough for the lowest 10% in any country. We all need to try to find ways to help them more while increasing their social mobility & yet not inculcate entitlement mentality.
at the end of the day, why is he in this situation? why did his wife received everything and he does not?
something is fishy in that sense. so what johnny stated is true. what the article is painting is one sided.
CPF can see cannot touch.
at list they allow us to withdraw maybe 5-10k,2 chances for every singaporean when there is a need to overcome the hard time.at list we feel more secure on our cpf .in this way no one will complain about it,at list we hv some say on our hard earn money.anyway if they got this intention to help us,no futher comment will be make,but if they got no intention to help us…alot of excuses will be make.cannot blame,they think and plan too much untill we hv no say.even WFB…u hv to top M/S for those selfempoly..many people dont hv the some to top up…go borrow??…want give just give…why plan so much??dont lets us withdraw from cpf and borrow from other sourse…end up life is getting worse and worse,at list u give us a chance to do so,if repeat again,then that is our own problem.they didnt know there are people ready need and find no way.we dont expect our gov to help in all mean.we must plan but dont over plan,we dont know what will happen tommor…
kaijie 27 April 2011
@USELESS MP
The case highlighted is in Potong Pasir and hence the useless MP is Chiam See Tong.
………….
indeed useless chiamseetong..
hav you been to chiamseetong matethepeople seeion office?
you think aircon liked the 5 stars community centre/rc hall?
and without a doubt..chiamseetong is the hdb chairman right?
just in case you are a FRICKIN IDIOT
read the reply below
……………….
The HDB informed him that as a divorcee, his housing options are to rent a room or a flat in the open market, noting that he has sufficient CPF savings to buy a flat.
The HDB’s reply to him said
……………………..
NEXT on the choppin block please
no nned to ask today what is istana canteen menu
only for today
1 packet of $1.80 chicken rice wrapped in free red teeshirt with a picture of leekingyou
kaijie 27 April 2011
@USELESS MP
The case highlighted is in Potong Pasir and hence the useless MP is Chiam See Tong.
………….
indeed useless chiamseetong..
hav you been to chiamseetong matethepeople session office?
you think aircon liked the 5 stars community centre/rc hall?
and without a doubt..chiamseetong is the hdb chairman right?
just in case you are a FRICKIN IDIOT
read the reply below
……………….
The HDB informed him that as a divorcee, his housing options are to rent a room or a flat in the open market, noting that he has sufficient CPF savings to buy a flat.
The HDB’s reply to him said
……………………..
NEXT on the choppin block please
no nned to ask today what is istana canteen menu
only for today
1 packet of $1.80 chicken rice wrapped in free red teeshirt with a picture of leekingyou
Sze Hian…you should have run for MP! I love your sound, practical explanation and how you speak up for the citizens using basic information. The Presidency is still up for grabs! Come on Sze Hian!
Yup, I agree with Smudger.
Sze Hian, pl consider; I have no doubt that you have what it takes to be an effective politician or the State President.
I shall be among the first to cast my vote in your favor, should you compete.
THIS – is the sort of illogical, inhumane, & thoughtless Policies/Rules/Regulations that PAP are infamous for.
Get into a rough patch in life, and one can really end up on the streets!
wad da f…..
There is something wrong here.
In Singapore, much of the assets are given to the woman with almost no regard to the man’s situation. Is this a mistake?
Surely the age of the man and woman must have a play in the circumstance. If Mr Tan is still in his 30s then it would be reasonable to think that he could find a job and rebuild his CPF nest egg. The fact is that he will have difficulty in finding a good paying job to rebuild his CPF.
In Mr Tan;s case, giving all to the ex-wife and leaving him out in the cold, regardless of the issue that led to the divorce, means his children will be alienated from the father. Will his children acknowledge or respect their father still given that he has been put in such a dire position by a divorce decision.
Whether in divorce or not, this remains a quarrel between adults and the effects on the children must be minimised.
Giving women the the advantage in divorce cases is a mistake. This will only encourage more divorces as wife see divorce as a way to grab their exit asset packages.
I do hope in time the opposition will work at correcting this before it becomes a Singapore culture.
The point of this article is
1. If Mr Tan did not have to contribute to CPF, he would have make wise investment of his $140k and not be in this predicament?
2. Encourage home ownership, yet suppress the appreciation of properties so that resale flats are affordable?
I have come to a point where I no longer “watch” my manners — jus Fuck Pap ..short and sharp!
Yo fake Frenchman & salivating over British NHS, Paris education, Aussie healthcare
Again forget to take your mental illness medicine? Waiting for SDP $60B to save you?
Full of nonsense as usual. Asshole…
Very sad and ridiculous.
The casinos are given priority to rent HDB Flats to house their foreign staff in Toa Payoh.
Even our national carrier, SIA, bought apartments to house their foreign crews, and here we have local divorcees having trouble even to find a roof over their heads.
Foreigners, foreigners, and again foreigners first, locals always come second. What shit is it? And they expect us to continue to place trust in them for another 5 years, we shutter, don’t know what would become of us after the GE.
Mr Leong Sze Hian, did you know that Mr Tan can use his CPF to pay off his monthly installments?
And cheapest resale flat cost $280k? What flat are you buying and in what location? If the guy is already in a situation like this, you think he’ll be looking for such a pricey flat?
My advise, go check out propertyguru.com.sg, you can find cheaper flats there! :)
Sometimes, don’t blame the government for individual failures. Please reflect! :)
I agree that there appears to be more to this case than meets the eye. I too am curious about why his wife obtained sole ownership of the flat and this report seems rather lopsided. Unfortunately, there are always sad cases like this that slip through the safety nets of every government and more can certainly be done to assist citizens that are left powerlesss when government policy does not favour their circumstances.
However, I also do wonder about the current CPF policy and how it will affect our future as retirees when we reach 65. The CPF is essentially supposed to provide citizens with a nest egg when we reach 65. But with current housing prices escalating at an alarming rate, young couples are left to shoulder loans that stretch for 30 years, draining the funds in their CPF that were initially supposed to provide a financial cushion in their twilight years. I think we can all agree that the purpose of public housing is to ensure that citizens have a roof over their heads at affordable prices. But if BTO public housing prices that are pegged to standard open market land rates in land scarce Singapore, it is inevitable that prices for future BTO flats would continue to rise. If that is the case then the future of young couples will be affected as they are indebted to the rising cost of loans that they need to service for 30 years.
The argument to say that this man has 140k in his CPF and that he can afford to find a cheaper flat on popertyguru.com appears moot since the CPF was originally intended to provide citizens with a form of financial support in their old age. I for one do not wish to work till 65 just to pay for a flat and discover that the funds in my CPF at 65 are low due to the high cost of the flat I bought when I was 35. In my humble opinion, it would seem that some policy changes can be made to ensure that public housing maintains its original and noble purpose, which is simply to provide shelter and home ownership to citizens at affordable prices. This would in turn ensure that at 65 years of age, we can look forward to a more financially secure future as aged citizens. Let’s reflect on the fact that in this man’s case, he would be left with very little or maybe even nothing when he reaches 65.
No spouse and no house – might as well be a mouse!
@biased
if he did not have to contribute to cpf
he will lose it all in the IR in a day
I can relate to him. I’ve divorced too. And only then did I realise about all the rules and regulations of HDB, when I needed to get another home. I realised how expensive it is. I realised that only 5% of the new flats are ‘reserved’ for 2nd timers. I mean, honestly, unless I’m real damn lucky, I’m never going to get a new flat. Resale is way up in the clouds for me; it’s ridiculous. It’s not everyone who’s got a lovely family with whom you can live with. To make this assumption would be too naive.
yes, I will loose my flat once I get a divorce, and cannot afford a resale flat…and with my bad credit rating…cannot get a bank loan…
will be better off being a mouse
Can’t he opt for a studio apartment. I am plannin moving to one as I dont want to blow by retirement cash on property.
For the next few years more ,his CPF is LOCK by the KEY at $123K on 1st July 2010.
http://www.youtube.com/user/project2O11#p/a/u/0/p1tzIRkIFs0
The PAP MP are also powerless to change HDB policies so worse if he is jobless or sick.
Mr Tan case is NOT NEW with PAP MP passing laws by only PAP such that the family court also work with KPI.
These facts are also TRUE that without a family neclears Mr TAN cant buy direct from HDB under the T & C set by Mr Mah and how much is the loan going to be after LOCKING $123K “retirement” and how much installment to pay and pay.
Vote out the Woman Charten bill
This case highlights the inequitable law that males operate under in the Women’s Charter.
It is not true that monthly maintenance is not needed just because the ex-wife earns $6,000 a month. What probably happened is that he paid her a lump sum at the conclusion of the divorce and gave an undertaking to let her have his full CPF paid for the flat.
If there had been a Family Charter then the division of assets will be more equitable. Since both parties agreed to the marriage, then the break-up and welfare of both parties must be jointly upheld, according to the terms of the Women’s Charter, made neutral in the Family Charter.
S’pore is too obsessed with home ownership. The policies are geared too heavily towards home ownership. It could one day be our downfall.
In wealthy Sweden, Switzerland, France, Germany and the Netherlands, homeownership is 60% of the population or less. Whereas in economically struggling Spain, Greece and Italy, homeownership is more than 75% of the population. Now when 15-30% of the population get into difficulties with their mortgage loan, that’s when we have a financial crisis tied to the housing market.
It is simplistic to say we want Singaporeans to have a stake in the country and the economy. Fine and noble, but does it have to mean investment in the houseing market when 15-30% can’t really afford it or may afford it at the time of loan application but not when the going gets tough?
There should be a re-think on home ownership for all or the vast majority, and there should be more options and support where the citizen gets into a rough patch. If rental for a greater number is part of the solution, then let’s have more HDB rental flats and more incentives for private property owners to rent out their flats.
Citizens could be encouraged to invest in businesses especially service industry rather than real estate. And the amount they invest would be less that what they pour into bricks and cement, so leaving them with more cash to spend.
As for sending retirees to Johor to live, this might be the choice for some, but it should be the foreign talent and workers who might be the ones who have accommodation in Johor and get to commute daily. The set up should be made easier for them to commute between Johor and Singapore. Then there should be more available housing in Singapore for Singaporeans.
“As the divorce court order was that the HDB flat which he co-owned with his ex-wife be entirely given to her, although he had contributed 60 per cent of the monies for the flat. he had nowhere to stay. The CPF which he has utilised for the flat, is also entirely given to his ex-wife.”
I wonder what kind of court do we have if the above is true. Does a man owe ex-wife a living? How is it that a man has to give up his share of cpf in the HDB and whatever paper profits to the ex-wife? Or is this part not presented clearly? Was it because the man decided to give a lump sum and hence, no longer required to pay child support nor alimony? Reading the text as it is, it is scary how women become so powerful. No wonder number of marriages are dropping and divorce rate is going up. Any woman who wants to play around with another man can just dump the guy and make money out of a failed marriage.
Even if the women charter has lost its credibility in today’s world where women are enjoying the best of both world – keeping her pays and not having to bear the costs for house expenses, and the right to be maintained from her husband’s part of income, the government will be out of their mind to do any change.
Why? Because they may lose the women’s votes in any election.
“what kind of court do we have if the above is true. Does a man owe ex-wife a living?”
Ans: He may have to owe maintenance. Court to decide.
How is it that a man has to give up his share of cpf in the HDB and whatever paper profits to the ex-wife?
Ans: Part of maintenamce order by Court in division of matrimonial property.
Or is this part not presented clearly?
Was it because the man decided to give a lump sum and hence, no longer required to pay child support nor alimony?
Ans: Read matrimonial cases for types of court orders in different cases.
Reading the text as it is, it is scary how women become so powerful. No wonder number of marriages are dropping and divorce rate is going up. Any woman who wants to play around with another man can just dump the guy and make money out of a failed marriage.
Ans: Courts try to achieve fairness. Trouble is there’s a generational thing for both litigants and for the judges. What a 21 year old expects is different from a 31 year old is diffenrent from a 41 year old is different from a 51 year old is different from a 61 year old.
And to the mix is if there are kids, if the woman works or has independent source of income or has contributed to the costs of the property. And of course the behaviour of the parties.
HDB is no longer the HDB we used to know. PAP and its HDB are their tools for making money out from the people like us.
Reply to Leong Sze Hian, i doubts it true that the man CPF being taken by the wife. I divorced with my wife, sold the house and i proposed to give all my CPF saving to my wife. the court and HDB rejected it as CPF isnt transferable. Unless till you die to next of kin. If no money why buy S$280k flat, many houses in woodland or punggol is much lower or down grade to buy a 2 room flat costing less than S$100k which my parent stayed.
Singaporean be down to earth, ask for what is within your reach. I been through bad times but never ask PAP or any party for assistance. Just put in extra efforts and nothing it impossible to meet end meet. After all the gentleman is only 50!
Having same problem with Mr.tan,situation worse then him where can find help and advice urgently as I don’t know what to do obtion is to sleep in park’help?
I having the same problem and much worse.when I was serve with the divorce petition while I was in prison,I was shock and as my ex-wife did not forwarn me,angry and did know what I sign,know then l relize that l did’nt have a adress to put on my IC.not to say having a roof over my head.my ex-wife having the whole house was awarded to her alone,know l and my sons are each are separated each have to renting room.she on the eitherhand rent the house out did’nt even consider whether they have aplace to stay.l could’nt talk to her or she will report me fore harassing(which she had but was rejected cause i did’nt haressed her but laws here only protect the woman very unfair to men because i also report this to CID but was reject. I talk to her,that haress but when go around complainingto my family that they called that explaining,two set of LAWS for men you call that equality and justice