Ko Siew Huey / Picture by Han Thon
In the latest episode of a public wrangle that has been playing out over the media, the Worker’s Party (WP) staged a vigorous defense of their vision of a “First World Parliament”.
Minister for Home Affairs and Law K. Shanmugam and Member of Parliament (MP) Indranee Rajah have criticized the WP for failing to identify the unique qualities of their model and suggested instead that their real intention is to block constitutional amendments and policies that they disagree with.
In response, WP Chairman Sylvia Lim said that their concept of a First World Parliament had already been clearly articulated at the launch of their campaign slogan, and that the latest remarks by the PAP members were made to confuse Singaporeans about the WP’s intentions.
She went on to reiterate what a First World Parliament should do:
- Scrutinize policy and ensure transparent implementation of legislation
- Hold government accountable for its actions
- Ensure an alternative government made up of parties with the necessary experience can be formed in the event that the ruling party fails
- Represent a mandate from diverse interests in society
- Ensure amendments to bills and the Constitution are not bulldozed through without proper debate
Referring to the Oath of Allegiance taken by Members of Parliament in which they promise to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution”, Ms Lim said that for any proposed amendments, “opposition MPs would have the duty to oppose them if they were made for partisan advantage.”
“Our track record will show that we are a pro-Singapore party,” she said. “You will see that we don’t just block any policy or any amendment. In fact we exercise our objections quite carefully only when we feel that there are legislation or constitutional amendments that are detrimental to national interest.”
On the challenge issued by Education Minister Ng Eng Hen for the opposition to give voters a real choice at this coming elections by forming an alternative government, WP secretary general Low Thia Khiang said that whether Singapore eventually adopts a two party or multiparty system is entirely up to the wishes of voters.
“It is not for the PAP to decide. Neither is it for the WP to decide. It is for the voters to decide. You must always remember that. I think the PAP is being very arrogant to ignore the will of the voters in an election,” he said.
Rebutting Dr Ng’s other point that the current system already allows for alternative voices in parliament and that by voting for the opposition, Singaporeans may unintentionally weaken the government, Mr Low was quick on the draw.
“I suppose it’s typical PAP,” he said. “They want some… noises in parliament but they do not want representation of people. They also don’t want Members of Parliament with the mandate to articulate the wishes and the voice of the people.”
Mr Low made the distinction between having a strong government and a strong system of government: “Strong system of government means that if the government fails, you have another government to be able to take over. That would give you more political stability and a more secure future than depending on one government.”
Employing a metaphor to illustrate his point, he said: “Like a car you need a spare tyre right? [If] You want to depend on four tyres and one punctures, that’s it, you can’t move.”
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Read TOC’s report on the candidates introduced at the media conference here: WP introduces latest slate of candidates.
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Singaporeans are indeed confused. WKS calls us to drill down all manifestos, Lim Swee Say says no need, just a compass.
The people are confused whose instruction is correct and how to view manifestos.
Can the party HQ gets its act together and not be more disorganized than oppo?
！！！！！！！！！！
五月1日发出成长配套
一周之内请大家去投票
每逢大选都来这一老套
大选过后后悔上了圈套
这次要决心把圈套扔掉
避免大选过后把你上吊
大家合作投反对党一票
把违背民心行动党除掉
！！！！！！！！！！
PAP wants noise and not MPs with power to block constitutional changes.
PAP wants to improve their policies but groupthink prevents its changes.
PAP wants total power to control the country. But now it is time to show that people want changes.
I can understand clearly what WP said. I am confused to listen to PAP rebutal.
TheReasonableOne
PAP. I see strength and resoluteness in them. On the contrary, GRC enhances democracy to the next level because non-majority races can now be voted and put into parliament. What assurance do you have for non-majority individuals to be voted in without the existence of GRCs?
…………..
and the GRC s h i t..worked liked hell perhaps? yet you ALLOWED the malays race to be insulted in both their religion and mentality..with the MALAY minister who did NOTHIN to protect the malays from INSULTs by a mental minister
YOU further allowed the indians to be insulted by fellow indians ministers on hunger/poor/firewalkin…
is this the GRC are you preachin on REASONABLE? do i see a chinese being unreasonable? when a chinese MP act arrogant onto the chinese individual..he the MP got TORCHED…now that is REASONABLE in my reasonable mind..
with 6 gay men holdin hands to garner 1 vote..if that is not STRENGTH..what is? sleepin together perhaps? you want assurance? buy a toaster from mustafa..1 ear warrenty? REASONABLE enough?
i12EARN13500
You bloody asshole, all you do is offer incoherent racist rumblings and vulgarities/insults to shout down an alternate argument?
kilo 24 April 2011
i12EARN13500
You bloody asshole, all you do is offer incoherent racist rumblings and vulgarities/insults to shout down an alternate argument?
…………
am i? so please xplaint what is GRC?
why was it started..who started GRC?
did you WATCHED survivor last friday?
just by mentionin BLACK/negro is against the american institution
do american senates come in grc form?
you wanna talk to me bout RACIST?
try leekingyou..are you afraid of him?
why? just because he is a hakka perhaps?
so who are you goin to submit your triplicate against ME?
yacoop or balekampon?
you need to consult a DOCTOR…
opps the above 2 i mentioned are indeed doctors…
Best reply ever! Let the will of the peole prevail. We should not let PAP open the floodgate of foreigners or anything without getting the people’s consent ever. The foreigner policy is definitely in-favor of PAP as they will vote PAP, such that real Singapore will or voices are suppress.
@Zero,
No, I am not God. I am just his servant subjected by His will.
How is it that I am unreasonable when I list out the positive attributes of PAP? So, if the vile opposition gangs and netizens list out the so-called undesirable attributes of PAP they are reasonable and logical?
Yes, treasonous opinions. Let’s define the word “treason”, shall we?
According to dictionary.com
noun
1. the offense of acting to overthrow one’s government or to harm or kill its sovereign.
2. a violation of allegiance to one’s sovereign or to one’s state.
3. the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.
By inciting the people to vote for the opposition, doesn’t that make you commit treason? To incite the people to vote for the opposition is to act upon the intention to overthrow the government. Also, by inciting the people to vote for the opposition, aren’t you committing a violation of allegiance to Singapore and it’s government? Which party forms the government now? PAP right? To oppose the PAP government means you are committing treason.
The opposition supporters are ingrates because they chose to rebel against a caring and loving government. The government that had and has provided them with shelter, quality education, security and a good quality of life. It’s illogical.
i12EARN13500
Another piece of shit from you again?
Why are you still here?
How is it you have time to go social network? Your Ah Kong pay for your internet bills while you going around saying GRC is shit?
You coward hiding behind the internet.
Try doing something useful that benefit the community
People like you debase the TOC forum and should be castrated
i12EARN13500
You want American senate, go and be an American citizen..
The US senate is the same chamber that allows Wall Street to misbehave for years and allow illegals to over stay in their country… good luck!
kilo
People like you debase the TOC forum and should be castrated
………….
and who is goin to castrate moi?
YOU? with what? a macdonald halah plastic knife perhaps?
me a coward?
wow
your i/c must be imprint:
name kilo
father:unknown
mother:testube
you did confirm you are loggin in from istana a-team ahkong free internet 56k modem surfonline right?
what happenned to billgates $25million$ computer server he donated?
you lacky(s) auction it off to finance the pap2011 manifesto perhaps?
If the current war of words is a debate, whereby a winner has to be declared. My vote goes to WP for putting up the most credible explanation, while PAP was opposing for opposing sake, no substance at all.
zam 24 April 2011
i12EARN13500
You want American senate, go and be an American citizen..
…………….
see..ere you go again..
alway ask people to migrate..
if YOU pap cannot run the country..its time for the pap ministers to migrate
with all the ^legalised^ billion$ they the pap ministers earned..
so what is YOUR handouts? ow many shillins? in ruppees or rupiahs?
TheReasonableOne 24 April 2011
@Zero,
No, I am not God. I am just his servant subjected by His will.
………….
YOU are indeed the almighty GOD(not the Heaven’s 1s hor) the istana model servant..opps not servant..there is no more ON GOVERNMENT SERVANT..slave is the keyword..off course YOU are subject to HIS will and tantrum…when he snap/shout
@ you:
jump boy!!!
you would had asked: how high sahib?
@TRO
You have already answered our argument.
We are against PAP which stands for Peoples Action Party. Not any government. If you equate Government as PAP in your mind then we are not responsible for your twisted translation.
And furthermore we are more patriotic then you are why? Because we chose to speak up for what is wrong rather then be blinded by rhetoric from the PAP, their failed policies, their half truths so we are the real reasonable ones here.
We are patriots who would lay down our lives for this country and her people. We chose to stay here and institute change through peaceful discourse and elections so to bandy the word traitors against us just shows that you are no more a mindless PAP zombie with only one goal to see your masters in power again.
You are living in the past glories of the PAP but we are talking about the future glories of this great country’s people. You must remember that no party is bigger then the country.
Those who are too smart not to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber. ~Plato
To the THREE musekeyTEARs..
TheReasonableOne/Zam/Kilo
a FREE french lesson for you
……………..
Il y a un esprit commun à tous les hommes individuels… Des œuvres de l’esprit, l’histoire est le dossier. Son génie est illustré par toute la série de jours. L’homme est explicable par rien moins de toute son histoire. Sans hâte, sans repos, l’esprit humain va forth dès le début qu’il incarnait chaque faculté, chaque pensée et chaque émotion, qui appartient à elle dans les événements appropriés. Mais la pensée est toujours avant du fait. tous les faits de l’histoire de preexist dans l’esprit que les lois. Chaque droit à son tour est faite par des circonstances prédominant et les limites de la nature donnent pouvoir à mais un à la fois. Un homme est l’Encyclopédie ensemble de faits. La création d’un millier de forêts est un acorn, et d’Égypte, lie de Grèce, Rome, la Gaule, la Grande-Bretagne, l’Amérique, pliée déjà dans le premier homme. Epoch après epoch, camp, Royaume, empire, République, démocratie, sont simplement l’application de son esprit manifold au monde multiple.
……….
anglais version:
There is one mind common to all individual men…
Of the works of this mind history is the record. Its genius is illustrated by the entire series of days. Man is explicable by nothing less than all his history. Without hurry, without rest, the human spirit goes forth from the beginning to embody every faculty, every thought, and every emotion, which belongs to it in appropriate events. But the thought is always prior to the fact; all the facts of history preexist in the mind as laws. Each law in turn is made by circumstances predominant, and the limits of nature give power to but one at a time. A man is the whole encyclopedia of facts. The creation of a thousand forests is in one acorn, and Egypt, Greece, Rome, Gaul, Britain, America, lie folded already in the first man. Epoch after epoch, camp, kingdom, empire, republic, democracy, are merely the application of his manifold spirit to the manifold world.
courtesy of:
Ralph Waldo Emerson’s Essay “History”
…………
now STOPPED spammin…
be a good dogs..
sit boys behave yourself
ere a tudang bone…
NEH keep asking the same old questions. Why Chen Show Mao wants to serve? Do WP want to form the government?
It gets tiring after a while… when there is no new info for netizens to chew upon. Like what LTK says, publish if there is anything fishy about the candidates and WP will pay the price.
As the Education Minster, we prefer to see NEH debate with WP on education policies.
Is it wrong for Singaporeans to want to see our ministers exhibit their knowledge and analytical skills and prove that they are indeed the best person for the job?
Mah BT tried but was dragged through the coals because of his weak logic. I thought Tharman did pretty well in the televised debate. He knows his stuff and is a safe hand to steer our economy. Same goes for Lim Hng Kiang who countered Tan SJ proposal in a coherent manner without any personal insults.
It speaks well for Lim and Tan that the govt has taken the effort to pore through an economic proposal and the points raised are worthy to be taken seriously.
We want to see serious debate, not silly questions or James Gomez brouhaha in 2006… where our nation’s future is almost decided by the whereabouts of a nomination form!
Hello “reasonableone”
you said:How is it that I am unreasonable when I list out the positive attributes of PAP?
zero comments: if you read my comment, i said you were un-reasonable because you started off your post with a mantras: “Praise be to PAP, the benevolent, the strong, the incorruptible, the righteous and the wise.” Do reasonable people need to preface their thoughts with a blessing from the demigods? You appear to treat PAP as GOD, the mantra you chanted in the beginning SCARES ME.
You said: Yes, treasonous opinions…1. the offense of acting to overthrow one’s government or to harm or kill its sovereign. ; a violation of allegiance to one’s sovereign or to one’s state;3. the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.By inciting the people to vote for the opposition, doesn’t that make you commit treason?
zero comments: No, you missed the key words “one’s own state”. Because the opposition party (i would say ALTERNATE party) belong’s to the same state, because Workers Party, sdp, NSP, et al, ARE ALL SINGAPOREANS IT CAN NEVER BE TREASON. If the Workers Party come from Malaysian UMNO or Japanese LDP, yes to ask to throw out pap and get WP in, that is treason. Please read the definition again, treason refers to getting power from outside one’s state to take over.
You said: Which party forms the government now? PAP right? To oppose the PAP government means you are committing treason.
zero comments: IF Singapore is a kingdom and not a democracy, you are correct. It is treason to throw out the King. You are really using a wrong analogy pal. This is a democracy, to request for a new style of government under different group of SINGAPOREANS leadership, can neve be an act of treason. You have absolutely no idea of governance in the real world and you are living in the middle ages.
You said:The opposition supporters are ingrates because they chose to rebel against a caring and loving government.
zero comments: It depends where you stand. If you are one of the billionaire ministers or beneficiaries thereof, the govt is lovingn. If you are a foreigner new citizen, yes govt is loving because it welcome you and kick out local smart PMETs. If you are casino operator, yes the goverhment is loving. It is all a numbers game, whether your kind are majority or minority. The May 7th will determine our fate.
You said: The government tat had and has provided them with shelter, quality education, security and a good quality of life. It’s illogical.
zero comments: You are making assumptions and ignoring a lot of facts. you speak just like PAP people, talking down, TELLING US HOW GOOD YOU ARE and when challenged you replay the old records and ignore the current circumstances in the country.
zero
Ant 24 April 2011
@TRO
We are patriots who would lay down our lives for this country and her people. We chose to stay here and institute change through peaceful discourse and elections
+++++++++++++++
Dear Patriots,
Please remember to ask carefully when someone present zero GST proposals, relocate factories to Malaysia (because well… we do not need manufacturing), offer fee land for HDB (because HDB supposed to be for owner occupier), look at foeigners like they are a drain/liability when we forgot our fore-fathers were immigrants themslves.
If some one who is patriot and over-zealous, do hold them in line and ask the right questions.
well done WP.
lion
when we forgot our fore-fathers were immigrants themslves
……………..
OUR forefathers came to singapoor not because of economic but to run away from the oppressed empress of china
the father of my foreforther lost his head/pigtail when he refused to bow to the empress dowarger..don’t forget sunyatseng history…
nowadays foreign immigrants? in search for a better future not because their governments 1st their head..they just seek a shortcut to easy life ahead..
meslf is a quitter/immigrant to britain
and came home a periodical son..
i could had stay livin in a xpensive cosy cottage with a tall angmor chiobus which is why i asked shortlegg minister ow he kissed his tall angmor wife in bed
drivin a original mini coupe @ 1/2 the prize brand new without coe/erps…
and tons of goldplated credit cards without seekin permission from ira81 forms and without a doubt.. i do get to consult my ANGMOR MP for assistances without a chinese interpreter nor a grc gayteam..best of ALL.. my plead would be HEARD..not just a british puppet show by brighton beach…
@Lion
Again cliche replies our forefathers are immigrants. No denying that but to say that we need immigrants to survive today is just as bad because that would mean that policies implemented have failed. Why?
Speaking of specifics, GST is a taxation that was meant to help the poor. Lofty ideals but how much as it helped? Are the poor in Singapore better off? Just like GRC were crafted to have more minority voices in parliament. Has the number of minorities increased in parliament? FYI this is a form of affirmative action so does meritocracy goes out the window for government convenience?
HDB we are not owners of our flat please read your HDB Lease, you are leasee and occupier so legally you lease or rent so in fact the land goes back to government control at the end of lease Zero dollar to whoever living there so the question is why the high price since it will eventually goes back to the government?
Furthermore land cost should be lower for HDB because of a few thing a small plot of land is used to house so many people so it should in effect be cheap because so many people live in that flat. Land is owned by the people of Singapore so those lands are administrated by the government to make policies detrimental to the people like private land market as a base to penalize people is unjust. Furthermore the primary function of HDB is provide affordable home. Not as defined by MBT but able to make repayments in shorter time. The debt burden has not only an effect on this generation but also on future generations to come.
So so called Lion don’t question my patriotism be a man and take a good around you then you can cast doubts on others
To lion,
I am really fedup with this kind of opposite-extreme arguments that you use to frighten the electorate.
You suppose that the alternate to A is everything opposite of A. That is to say if A means PAP, then the alternate to A will do everything opposite. GST you say will be zero. Did you not know that the manifesto of opposition parties asks for abolition of GST on essential items! Dont use the stupid argument of going the other way round and imagine that alternate governemnt will do everything opposite for the sake of doing opposite.
I don;t want to waste time applying the same rebuttal to your remaining points, you make wrong assumptions of the alternate party policies without understanding them. This old line PAP logic makes voters very very mad. Can’t you think of something new.
zero
@Lion
One part I forgot to mention was manufacturing moving out to Malaysia. Already a lot of manufacturing are moving out to Malaysia. Opposition need not send them to Malaysia or cheaper countries our incumbents are already good at doing that.
BTW can you tell in which manifesto does this say? I am curious because the first time I heard of this was during SDP unveiling their candidates so where to you did get this? Or are you one who passing disinformation here?
@lion
don’t give me all that PAP crap about all our forefathers are immigrant. all my brothers and myself serve 2 and half years NS+++. if u subscribe to the PAP crap, then, lets singapore be a hotel where immigrants come and go. abolish NS. i don’t think its fair for my son to waste his life for NS and to defend a place of immigrants. I rather he be given a choice to fight with the FT on a level playing field and not be unfairly treated and to suffer for NS.
that stupid dr Janil skive is allowed to skive his way to avoid NS and earn his high paying job, why not every male singaporeans. why waste 2 prime years in a meaningless NS?
@The Reasonable One
Thanks for the entertainment.
By the way, how you related to the father & son? Now that the Holy Goh is out of favor, u there to take his place? So you 3 should be named father, son, Holy Crap?
Whenever the PAP gets hit by the truth emanating from the Opposition, it will resort to one simple tactic. Obfuscate the issue. It worked in the early years where many voters were not highly educated. Coupled with a complain MSM, the Opposition will be painted to look like clowns. PAP still using this tactic. If they bother to read netizens’ comments, they will realise that the voters are now calling their bluff.
In the current context,I think under LKY the PAP will go deep down in votes, because L. simply does not understand the internet and its power. He is a dinosaur living in the past.
PErhaps some of his newer ministers may have warned him, but being a dinosaur he cannot initiate the change, and his son with his limited capability has no drive to intitiate massive strategic change.
Some months ago there was a talk of a “pap internet brigade” which would join the forums to promulgate their point of views. That is fair tactic. But i hardly see such brigade. Occasionally therea are a few writers, here it is “REasonableone” and in TR it is “Devagi” etc. after a while this mere handful of people give up, unable to sustain their battle strategy, simply because pap leaves very little ammunition to fight with.
I think pap will get 58% or less of votes. i had explained the calculation to one “Devagi” in the other TOC posting with Dr Gomez at the thread head article.
zero
Whenever the PAP gets hit by the truth emanating from the Opposition, it will resort to one simple tactic. Obfuscate the issue. It worked in the early years where many voters were not highly educated. Coupled with a complaint MSM, the Opposition will be painted to look like clowns. PAP is still using this tactic. If they bother to read netizens’ comments, they will realise that the voters are now calling their bluff.
We see Princess Lela in Nicole Seah, she will lead the resistance against the Dark Side. Sinkies we have hope finally! Let’s us unite against the emperor and his minions. They can play mind games but Sinkies are not buying in this time. The resistance will fight to the end. Bless the republic!
The NKF saga has exposed the calibre of some of our ministers?
The abuses that were going on in running of NKF have been repeatedly brought to our dear ministers and Health and Charity authorities but no action was taken.
The ministers in charge made denials in parliament.
It was finally as a result of NKF’s chief’s using charity monies for installation of golden taps in his own office that the scandal came to light.
People’s feedbacks were always treated with lightly.
Our talented ministers’s wife had even condoned the excessive salaries paid to NKF chief as peanut.
Should we pretend that we have no problem and we are world’s class given this kind of oversight and refusal to look into feedbacks of people.
Do we want to wait like in the NKF saga for golden taps and peanut scandals to break out before finally taking actions to prevent injustice to citizens and all kinds of absuses and malpractices. Dy PM WKS did not disclose the truths about poor security systemm in prison what cause the ridiculous toilet escape by Mas Selamat. Where is his morality authority to talk about government’s openness and accountablity?
It is time to be transparent and accountable to people before expecting citizens to believe such ministers responsible for NKF and Mas Selamat or Foreign talent and over-charging of housing cost and other policy errors.
Stop the hypocrisy and justification and start governing transparently and accountably?
@Return of the jedi
The dark side is obviously the oppositions, evil and twisted. Who knows? There might be a sith lord, could possibly be an old man with deviant thoughts and intentions like Palpatine, orchestrating the downfall of Singapore from day one. In time, his true identity will be revealed for all to see.
@TRO
Please enough of your negative notion and your cries of “sky is falling” if the opposition comes to power.
If a country depended solely on a party to survive and if the party was to lose power and the country spiralled into oblivion.
That failure falls squarely on the shoulders of the incumbent for putting in place a system that depended too much on the incumbent and for failing to see that even the greatest government fail to be in power for forever. Not any democracy, not dictatorship not even communism. Government has to evlove and change if it is too inflexible then that system should be confined to bin of history.
Pap is adding words into oppositions speeches thru the media also. The bloody F%$# shit times reported and the F#@$ pap minister said SDP want to phase out manufacturing. But this is actually what SDP said “I never said that we should completely phase out manufacturing in Singapore.” Mr Tan fired back. “I proposed in my paper that we should not continue to give incentives to bring in more manufacturers but rather to expand our services industry.” Bloody pap and shit times!!! I am so angry with these shits. I work in manufacturing sector and look how the pap is screwing singaporeans. I am waiting for election day. May vote 100% for opposition. So pissed of with the pap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@TRO
How can lackeys understand the true meaning of democracy only true Citizens like Nicole Seah will! Go go go NRS! Begone dogs of hell!
TheReasonableOne 24 April 2011
@Return of the jedi
The dark side is obviously the oppositions, evil and twisted. Who knows?
…………
indeed..when leekingyou dropped dead.. he maked sured every singapoorium followed him as well!!! leekingyou is a bloomin coward!!! both in live and death!!!
~PERIOD~
i don’t need a parliament that has oppositions who oppose for the sake of doing so / have not played any significant roles in formulating national policies even after they are elected for so long.
don’t romanticize a “first world parliament” with oppositions. it won’t work.
12EARN13500 or should I call you IPOLISHammer?
You jumping thread and changing moniker?
You cheap French pretender.. don’t disgrace yourself anymore
No arguments what so ever; just cheap pot shots…
Ant 24 April 2011
@Lion
Again cliche replies our forefathers are immigrants. No denying that but to say that we need immigrants to survive today is just as bad because that would mean that policies implemented have failed. Why?
Speaking of specifics, GST is a taxation that was meant to help the poor. Lofty ideals but how much as it helped? Are the poor in Singapore better off? Just like GRC were crafted to have more minority voices in parliament. Has the number of minorities increased in parliament? FYI this is a form of affirmative action so does meritocracy goes out the window for government convenience?
HDB we are not owners of our flat please read your HDB Lease, you are leasee and occupier so legally you lease or rent so in fact the land goes back to government control at the end of lease Zero dollar to whoever living there so the question is why the high price since it will eventually goes back to the government?
Furthermore land cost should be lower for HDB because of a few thing a small plot of land is used to house so many people so it should in effect be cheap because so many people live in that flat. Land is owned by the people of Singapore so those lands are administrated by the government to make policies detrimental to the people like private land market as a base to penalize people is unjust. Furthermore the primary function of HDB is provide affordable home. Not as defined by MBT but able to make repayments in shorter time. The debt burden has not only an effect on this generation but also on future generations to come.
________________________
No need immigrants into Singapore. Don’t be naive… you are opposing for the sake of opposing. With ferttility rate at 1.2, soon we will shrink to 2 Million population with an inverted population pyramid. Get real, man.. we need immigrants for many years to come and we need to bring the right ones in and assimilate them
GST has not helped to broaden our tax base? I hate to pay tax but something has to pay to drive national development… to keep silent on where money comes from with empty promises is mischievous
HDB lease… it is a standard lease hold agreement applicable for all countries (unless freehold). In HK, all leasehold are only 50 years (look shorter than HDB) and thereafter, property goes back to government. You want freehold contracts from HDB… what is the downline impact? Or its not important because you are just pushing for pupulist arguments.
There is always trade-offs to be made and lets not ignore it
real talents have to be tested,
if an interviewee told me in an interview that he thinks he should be paid 5k/mth,
no problem, he will be tested if he’s worth 5k/mth.
if u think u r worth 300k/mth, no problem, u will be tested to see if u r worth 300k/mth.
we welcome talent, real talents.
we can live with GST but having the same GST rate for both rice & LV bag is like forsaking the surgeon’s scalpel for the shotgun.
HK is a convenient distraction, HK is a Special Administrative Region of a communist regime, &
we are not squabbling over lease period, it’s the definition of terms,
Lessee & Owner are different terms, why does somebody keep calling HDB dwellers owners?
and the home ownership rate in SG is?
If everyone of us vote for Change, FEAR will be Terminated when the votes have been counted and opposition win at least 51%.
This is only way Fear can be DEFEATED , BEATEN.
Fear, you’re FIRED!
Respect is earned, not Forced.
pui!
This comment from WP indirectly indicated that they also worry that sporeans will be confused by the remarks.
We, at TOC and TR are all enlightened and fully awakened, of course, are the exception.
But we are only a minority.
So, I also agree with WP’s concern.
This is a valid concern because the Oldest population group and the naive and innocent and less discerning and politically apathetic are simply living in Oblivion.
There is no way to save them except for us to talk to them. 1 vote at a time.
1 Million by week’s end. Think MLM. Think Viral.
We are not sacrificing for these apathetic and oblivios b.fks. We are sacrificing for ourselves. For every oblivion citizen, we need to counter with 1 converted vote.
There are just too many of them.
This is Jasmine in the making.
I wonder has Foreign Press started to document this Epic in the making?
regards
Karmanisation has begun
@Lion
Agreed that there is a fertility problem but who caused it, was it the people? Was it the government policy of “Two is enough”? Was the emphasis of economic or bust drive of the government which “forced” people to chose between work and family? Immigration is not the only way to fix a population problem. if you think it is the only way then you are as short sighted as the government or want instant gratification just like the PAP So please be better informed before calling other naive.
Well there programmes being rolled out by the PAP for this coming election I do not see you worry about how is it going to be financed. To take a leaf from your beloved incumbent programs are a compasss that set directions for this nation all will be revealed in due time.
No one is asking for Freehold units. Please read our post careful our grouse is why does it cost as much as a freehold property for a leased flat. That is the million dollar question on everyone mind.BTW ask the residents staying at Marymount Terrace what they think of your freehold argument go on ask them and then come back and post your comments. Land Acquisition Act superceeds every form of tenure. You can still be thrown out of your house.
Agreed trade off needs to be made true but we have yet to seen concession being made for the people. Even in the worst economic crisis transport operators are still making money, electricity companies are still making money so where is the tradeoff for the sacrifices made by the people?
If we had someone reveal to us what is the breakdown of buliding a HDB house we will better able to understand what is the benefit the government giving us or as you say trade off for what we are paying for but we have yet to see any such openess in fact they seem to be hiding why? Is something not right?
Look at the issues raised here carefully, these were issues not created by us but merely raised by us. We worry for our children and our children’s children who may one day be forced to live in place where they have no way to live. Then what will you do?
“In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up.”
– by Martin Niemöller
Ant,
Fertility problem caused by government? You call that an objective statement? The root cause is Urbanisation and this is seen in many developed countries.
Land Acquisition act? You think this is unique to Singapore? Most countries have it to drive specific development/city planning.
Public housing is of a poor standards in most countries – the HDB stands out in this regard. Now affordability is recignized by all (ruling and Opposition) and the approaches may differ. I personally find that the government direct subsidy grant recently announced for the bottom 20% who rent to try own a flat is a good move but can be improved.
Lets weigh the issues carefully.
The PaP still exhibits the ” I know what’s best for U” attitude….and they wonder why so many Singaporeans r apathetic and non creative!! Well they don’t speak for me, they never asked me for my views or even cared about what I want. I want a voice in Parliament.
@Lion
Can you please not not make sweeping PAP like statement in which did I put fertility was a government fault. I am talking about policy instiuted by the PAP government lead by LKY and his hare brained eugenics theory. If you cannot remember let me refresh your memory, 1970s the PAP wanted less productive members of population not to reproduce because less productive memebers of society would burden the economy of Singapore, people who had more children were taxed higher to stop procreation. Fast forward 80s and 90s the Gradute Mother Scheme, this controversial law promoted graduate mothers with tax break for 3 child and other goodies but he forgot that most graduate mothers would not have gone thru university to become a full time mother. All these had sinificant impact of the TFR this cannot be denied.
Land acquisition Act was pointed out to rebut your misperception that we are looking for Freehold public housing. Just to point out that uncertainity is found even in freehold property.
Again sweeping statement, public housing are run down which country are you comparing Singapore public housing with?
I am glad you do see flaws in the system. The main issue about public housing here is that we only look at price but we do not take into consideration the income proportion. Let me give you an example, a public servant friend of mine bought a DBSS near his parents place now it cost about 700k and with a repayment period of 30 years his entire loan with interest came up to about a million plus. As a civil servant he and his wife has to slog to pay their housing loan. The question is this one in 30 years time do you really think he will be able to sell this property more then 1.2 million dollars and even if he did will he be able to buy a similar place? Now you might say why not downgrade, agreed yes he can downgrade but how much will he get in hand? Now this question I cannot answer now for a few things what will be price of 3 room flat at that point in time? What will be the minimum sum in the CPF at that point? What will be the interest rate like at that point in time?
You might say why do give an extreme example of DBSS why not BTO, assuming BTO is for lower wage earners. A BTO flat cost any average of 200000 translate to $900 is needed to be paid with our low income earners earning less than $800 a month both the husband and wife earning would translate to 50% of their total income. Now is this truly affordable. Yes there are grants to lessen the load agreed but in environment where cheap foreign labour influx their job and income security is no longer there. Now the income and job insecurities are not just felt by the low income but also by PMETs. This uncertainities can be alleviated by the government. By putting in place policies to protect the Singapore workers, our Employment Act is inadequte. This will strengthen job security. Next productivity has to be revived many mature economies have gone in this directions. We are no longer like the 1970s whereby we can compete with many of the countries around us in terms of manufacturing but now even Malaysia cannot compete with countries like Vietnam in terms of cost. We have to understand we cannot go back to 1970s. We have to remake ourselves in the new economy, KBE is vital we put in the infrastructure for KBE but more can be done for this portion to promote KBE(Knowledge Based Economy). It is not just R&D when we say KBE but also commercialization of existing findings has to be promoted so that we too can come up with Asus of Singapore. Or Ericsson of Finland.
This latitude thinking is sorely lacking in the incumbent they seem to be flogging a dead horse in terms of ideas. That is why a change is seen as good.
Correction
Ericsson of Singapore
Politicians must be respectul towards one another. It is the people who decide who are truthful or lying