~ By: Ng Yi Shu ~

We see it all around us. On the Internet, where nationalistic netizens insult invading immigrants to go back to where they came from; more subtly in real life where petitions are signed by residents protesting foreign worker dormitories near their homes. These xenophobic sentiments have heated up lately, with an apparent insult made by a PRC scholar, Sun Xu.

Many will be familiar with this image, the story and its’ reactions, namely by Baey Yam Keng, Tay Ping Hui and others.

Sun Xu wrote (direct translation): “The most irritating thing in Singapore is the gangster Singapore uncles who stare at you when you bump into them. There are more dogs than humans here in Singapore.”

Reactions varied, from PAP MP Baey Yam Keng’s apparent standing up for Sun Xu:

"I think first of all, these are behaviours that this gentleman has picked up (seen). We need to reflect upon ourselves, are we the way they (the PRCs) described? We should take this opportunity to reflect upon ourselves, but we should (also) be confident of ourselves. Even though some of us are like that, majority of Singaporeans are gracious, there are good people in Singapore."

to Tay Ping Hui’s ‘impertinent ingrate’ remark.

And there is also this:

A local version of the recent HK anti-PRC locust advertisement, it says:

“Do you want Singapore to spend $36,000,000 yearly to sponsor at least two thousand foreign scholars?

Singaporeans have also had enough!

The locust plague has spread from Hong Kong to Singapore.

We strongly request the PAP government to tighten the overly lax immigration policy!

Stop immigrants from ‘invading’ Singapore unrestricted!

Protect the rights of Singaporeans and defend local culture.

We strongly request NUS disciplinary committee to mete out the most severe punishment to ingrate MOE scholar Sun Xu!”

All of us hold certain beliefs – prejudices – about our environment – people, places, things, events. These eventually manifest into our attitudes towards them and how we interact with people, places and events. We hold certain beliefs of foreigners and foreign workers in general – and these beliefs have been amplified by the recent influx of foreigners into our land.

(data from: http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/themes/people/hist/popn.html. Note: population numbers in thousands.)

Our reactions speak volumes about what we believe. How differently we could have reacted to a hot-headed young foreigner hurling insults at us Singaporeans though reflects on our sensibility.

Mr Baey’s remark (his entire quote) called on us to reflect on whether our behaviours were like the one Sun Xu described – and he defended Singaporeans by saying that “majority of Singaporeans are gracious, there are good people in Singapore”.

The advertisement branded PRC citizens as locusts and called for the rights and culture of Singapore to be defended.

The difference in reaction is stark – one chose to see the insult as hot-headed feedback while another chose to see this as an opportunity to amplify agitated xenophobic Singaporeans’ anger. Both are equally justified: Mr Baey may have saw Sun Xu as a hot-headed young foreigner whose insult was deserving of both reflection (“are we the way they (the PRCs) described?”) and rebuttal (“majority of Singaporeans are gracious, there are good people in Singapore”) while the people who made the advertisement may have seen Sun Xu as a manifestation of their fears – that these foreigners will destroy our carefully built heritage and suck our taxpayer coffers dry in their quest to use us as a springboard to other nations.

Prejudice is not wrong – neither is our choice to discriminate. However, we have to be aware; aware of the choices we have when we have prejudices; aware of the prices the foreigners pay as a result of our discrimination and aware of the differences we can make towards these foreigners who, like our forefathers, left their country in search of a dream.

Yes, we may be getting increasingly crowded. Yes, our culture and heritage may be at risk. But is it fair to generalise every single foreigner just because a young, hot-tempered person made a single comment branding all of us as dogs? Is it fair to be xenophobic just because of our prejudices against foreigners, which may have been (or may not have been) created by them?

Is it fair?


This is the first part of a 3-part series.

Part 2: Prejudice and Discrimination – The Prices Others Pay

Part 3: Prejudice and Discrimination – The Differences We Make


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57 Responses to “Prejudice and Discrimination – Xenophobia”

  1. hangman 2 March 2012

    This is a good article that adds value to what you have written.
    http://gintai.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/my-take-on-the-sun-xu-debacle/

    Reply
  2. I think the author of this article should spend more time contemplating on the (un)fair playing field for Singaporeans when compared to foreigners, which I am sure will have loads of material to write about.

    Reply
  3. Hugon 5 2 March 2012

    Local liable for NS from 18-50.
    Newbies exempted totally.
    Which other govt in the universe remains in power with policy like that??
    Which other govt dare to implement such policy??

    Reply
  4. Sporeans overpamperd by PAP 2 March 2012

    Singaporeans generally are spoilt from being overly proptected and pampered by an altruistic PAP government and for the good lives think they are divine and are beyond criticism.

    Reply
  5. kampong boy 2 March 2012

    Let's make one thing very clear:
     
    Citizens' (not only netizens) reactions towards these foreigners are not  xenophobic sentiments.
     
    They are a reflection of citizens' anger against the pap government's reckless, irresponsible foreigner tsunami policy.
     
    Before the pap's reckless, irresponsible foreigner tsunami policy, we citizens have had no issues with foreigners at all.
     
    So, please stop accusing Singapore citizens as being xenophobic.
     
    Is the writer of this article a pap minister in disguise?
     
     

    Reply
  6. Easy for you to preach about fairness when you aren’t hurt by the unfair policies of this government. Making noise is the only way to get this government to sit up and take notice.

    Reply
  7. Alfred 2 March 2012

    The author needs to do some homework on the underlying issues, instead of superficially branding "we" as xenophobic.
     
    The Online Citizen also needs to filter out low quality articles to avoid wasting the time of its readers.

    Reply
  8. Kampong boy 2 March 2012

    The pap gives these foreign students huge sums of money freely.

    The money is not from the pap’s pocket. It is our country’s money, ie.our money.

    The pap gives these foreigners places in our universities which are funded with our money, depriving eligible citizens a chance to study in the local universities.

    Now, when these foreigners call us dogs, the pap accuses us of being xenophobic when we express our happiness and we are told by the pap to reflect on ourselves.

    Do we citizens deserve such a party to rule over us?

    Reply
  9. Obiwan Kenobi 2 March 2012

    In my opinion, using the word "Xenophobic" on everything mentioned in this article is an unjustifiably sweeping statement.
    From my perspective and gut instincts, most Singaporeans are reasonable and sensible people, (perhaps a result of many years of semi-totalitarian rule). Personally, what I found to be morally unacceptable, is, being a scholar who paid next to nothing for his university education, Sun Xu behaved like a perfect ingrate.
    That, is in direct conflict with many Singaporeans' moral values. Therefore, it has absolutely nothing to do with being a Xenophobe or not.

    The last time I saw the word "Xenophobic" being used was to describe skin-head, neo-nazis in Russia and Belarus. These people have no qualms murdering a yellow-skinned person on the streets. Frankly, I just don't see a normal Singaporean doing that.
    Please be very clear about this.

    To all Singaporeans, we need to keep our minds clear about this sensitive issue. What is it we are asking for? Are we justified in asking for it? Are we being unreasonable? Are we being Xenophobic? In my opinion, articles like the above will only serve to confuse more than help. A gross disappointment.

    Reply
  10. Sporeans overpamperd by PAP 2 March 2012
    "… pampered by an altruistic PAP government"
    I lol'd at this.. Clearly you are not a Singaporean or a delusional one. Being one of the highest paid politicians in the world…? lololol 'altruistic'

    Reply
  11. Packrat3011 2 March 2012

    Prejudice is not wrong?
    Really?
    Way to go TOC.

    Reply
  12. Kampong boy 2 March 2012

    By the way, how can Mr. Baey’s holier-than-thou attitude be justified?

    Reply
  13. thePAPMafiaOrganisation 2 March 2012

    the FT policy is no other than the farking cheeby mafia bogus policies
    these farking dictators needed to be taken and ass off from the ruling house
     

    Reply
  14. Badly Written 2 March 2012

    I think this article is badly written.
    It claims prejudice and discrimination from the heated netizens towards foreign immigrants when the writer himself exudes prejudice and discrimination towards the heated netizens on the issue of excessive foreigners on our land. I don't see how this article is balanced at all.
    Yes, the netizens are heated. This does not necessarily imply that they are exaggerating the situation on the grounds. Many amongst the netizens are speaking off their experience on the grounds. It's only fair that we respect each of these individual voices.
    I, for one, have seen how Singaporeans are being squeezed out in our workforce. And it's not due to our competency but more due to abuse of the lax immigrations policies and the introduction of foreigners at such a fast pace that they no longer find a need to integrate into our society anymore.
    It's not about xenophobia. I'm sure many Singaporeans have no problem interacting with foreigners be it in our own land or overseas. What gets into us when we interact with many foreigners on our own land is their arrogance and apparent contempt of our way of life.
    The curry incident is a classic. Followed by the Sun Xun incident now.
    Besides, which sane Singaporean will be happy with MOE spending taxpayers' monies to issue a scholarship to someone who has a questionable character and conduct like Sun Xun.

    Reply
  15. iAMahMENG 2 March 2012

    when meself was in britain…meself had to pin a badge with the words:
    iam not a tourist..i lived ere….
    without a doubt i must also slanged liked a eastender cockney (Michael Caine)…
    last but not least..never repeat never speak in dialects or singrish….

    Reply
  16. David 2 March 2012

    Looking at the broader picture, influx of foreigners have caused servered problems to our society. Taking Sun Xu out of the many leaves is one thing, we have seen foreigners beating up our Taxi driver its passengers before fleeing Singapore.  Is this fair?

    Reply
  17. Lyndy 2 March 2012

    Fair or not, I m sick of having to put up with foreigners and their ill manners especially PRCs.

    Reply
  18.  I don't think we should ever compare today's new immigrant or foreign scholars with our forefathers. Our forefathers risked their life and limbs to be in Singapore with the intention of settling down and build a home for themselves and their children. However, foreign scholars are enticed to come here with a fully paid-for education and a very generous allowance, all at the expense of Singapore's taxpayers' $! Of course there are the ones who are grateful to this country and in return settle down and make positive contributions to the host country. Those who came here with all the wrong motive would have viewed  Singapore as daft and stupid to give them a ticket to more lucrative markets eg. USA or UK or even to allow them to return to their hometown as some foreign-educated big shots. The blame should not be on citizenry for getting upset with the likes of Sun Xu. The decision-makers who allow such influx of sub-standard "talents" are the guilty ones! Knowing how some local famalies struggle to put their children through university, I can empathise with the uproar and discontent. To label these voices of discontent as xenophobic is unacceptable. It's high time SG people let our voices be heard and not be like meek litle lambs.

    Reply
  19. It s ok to discriminate... way to go Singapore! 2 March 2012

    "Prejudice is not wrong – neither is our choice to discriminate".  I am sure you have good intention writing this article but please read what you write and ask yourself whether you will like to be discriminated because of your skin colour,  your accent or where you are born… It is clear from the comments that people here don't understand what "xenophobic" means. Go to Wikipedia and learn something instead of complaining for a change!

    Reply
  20. I think the author is just questioning the current sentiments against foreigners in Singapore. Seriously, after reading so many comments (not just on this article) against foreigners since I began "liking" TOC on FB, I have wondered if we have become a foreigner-xenophobic lot, which would be sad given how we have come about in the first place.

    Reply
  21. fnmiddle 2 March 2012

    The beliefs (prejudices) are not wrong. There is nothing wrong with prejudice. What is unfair is the discrimination that results from the prejudice.

    Reply
  22. jelimon 2 March 2012

    I've met my fair share of obnoxious foreigners, from back-stabbing bullies at work to neighbours with zero manners. Even one who shoved me when I was 8 months pregnant with my first kid so that she could get a seat on the train.
    And just these past weeks, those who bothered to give up their seats for me, now pregnant with the second kid, are foreigners while the locals look on non-chalently. 

    What I mean to say is, there are good eggs and there are bad ones. Let's base our opinion of them on those that we have actual contact with and not over-generalize them. Before the foreigners "invaded", we were complaining about Singaporeans with no social graces. Are they now just a scapegoat for our unhappiness because they are one of the issues that can unite us?
     

    Reply
  23. Alfretz 2 March 2012

    No wonder we are called daft!

    Reply
  24. human nature 2 March 2012

    //huh? 2 March 2012 since I began "liking" TOC on FB, I have wondered if we have become a foreigner-xenophobic lot, which would be sad given how we have come about in the first place.//
    It is human nature or should I say the nature of the animal kingdom or self-preservation. You tend to like & protect your own kind or specie or grouping. Very natural.
    You should say how we started & fought (among the different dialects in the old days & riots) to get to what we are today. What do you think the japanese was fighting for all the way here and why we wanted our independence or for any matter why many regions of other places want their independence.
     

    Reply
  25. mice is nice 2 March 2012

    very strange the writer can just turn a blind eye to the immigration policies that affect the people at work, school or play (public places where people hang out), etc.
     
    its as if the crowds in our public transport does not matter, the effects on home prices does not matter, being displaced in schools does not matter, being insulted does not matter, etc. do they not matter? do concerns of S'poreans not matter?
     
    is bearing the brunt of all the negative consequences of those policies fair? too often individuals have been told not to rock the boat, to make personal sacrifice for the sake of maintaining harmony.
     
    any comparison with the situations our forefathers faced back than isn't fair. things were just so different to draw a meaningful comparison.

    Reply
  26. @ Ng Yi Shu

    long and tedious article which fails to achieve much except for putting the bad and good eggs in the same basket and asking for the reader to judge the basket.

    i’d prefer to separate the good and bad eggs into 2 baskets and judge them separately.

    additionally quote:”Prejudice is not wrong”

    No, i disagree, Prejudice is wrong.

    prejudice is an unfavorable opinion without knowing or examining the facts/information.

    an informed unfavourable opinion based on facts/information is not unreasonable.

    it is an informed choice vs an uninformed choice, uninformed choice is irrational, therefore wrong.

    Reply
  27. Singaporean go-back-to-where-you-frommers have nothing on the Australian version.
    http://www.sbs.com.au/shows/goback

    Reply
  28. xenophobia is an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange.

    it does not apply for Sun Xu simply because the hostility is based on reasons (his actions), by definition it is not xenophobia, so there is no case to be fought on this platform.

    Reply
  29. prejudice is an unfavorable opinion without knowing or examining the facts/information.

    this also does not apply for Sun Xu simply because the hostility is based on facts and information (his actions), by definition it is not prejudice, so there is also no case to be fought on this platform.

    Reply
  30. discrimination(aganist) is unfair treatment of a person, racial group, minority, etc; action based on prejudice.

    as a result of the above (prejudice having no case), consequentially, case for discrimination automatically collapse by virtue of definition.

    Reply
  31. Letgo 2 March 2012

    Many of us can guess the author of the article.
    The PAP has a startling position of being critical on issues concerning the rank and file Singaporeans and the bad habit of attaching labels to viewpoints that are different from theirs…it is this bad habit that shows up who the author is.  By calling Singaporeans "xenophobic" the author is deliberately missing the point that all the last one year of vocal views are symptoms of a larger malaise in Singapore body politic and the many proven flawed policies that are just shrugged off by the ruling party.

    Reply
  32. ok, thats for the bad eggs, now, the good eggs (foreigners sitting at home minding their own business not making any dog comments or anything like that)

    for the good eggs, there is no case for prejudice, discrimination & xenophobia either because for the segment of Singaporeans who are showing displeasure of their presence,

    the fact/information is that their(Foreigners) arrival overloads the existing infrastructure resulting in increased stress, tension and cost(especially housing and cars).

    it is far fetched to say that the above considerations are not reasonable.

    and since Singaporeans have a reason (backed with information/facts)

    discrimination, prejudice and xenophobia does not apply.

    Reply
  33. If u have never ever seen a pokemon b4 and u fear it when u finally see one even though it’s just doing nothing n minding it’s own business, thats xenophobia.

    but
    if the pokemon takes your job, cause u to pay a premium for your house, calls u a dog and u fear it, it’s no longer xenophobia.

    Reply
  34. Prejudice equals ignorance. It is wrong. Perhaps there are good reasons as to why the prejudices arose in the first place but prejudice in itself is still wrong so its a minefield to suggest that it may not be wrong even thought that might not have been the intention….

    Reply
  35. John Kwai Lo 2 March 2012

    Haha.  Nice article.  Here's one to go as a sidedish for this post.  Ah Tiong vs Ah Tanhttp://www.according2ed.com/2012/02/ah-tiong-vs-ah-tan.html

    Reply
  36. my dearest 2 March 2012

    @iworkhardsometimes
     
    "if the pokemon takes your job, cause u to pay a premium for your house, calls u a dog and u fear it, it’s no longer xenophobia."
     
     
    Well said.
     
     
    Now imagine there are more than one million such pokemons.
     
     
    I hold the party that lets in all these pokemons responsible.
     
     
     
     

    Reply
  37. yeoman 2 March 2012

    sgporeans are not xenophobic; some of us just became 'claustrophobic' with the overcrowding of FTs in our tiny place.

    Reply
  38. eaglefly 2 March 2012

    THE FREAKING PRC SHOULD COME TO WOODLANDS IMMIGRATION WHERE THE MALAYSIAN DOGS, CHINESE, INDIAN, MALAYS, FIGHT AND PUSH EACH OTHER TO GET ONTO 170 OR 160, TRY THE QUEUE HERE, MONKEYS, BARBARIANS, ANIMALS, JUMPING QUEUE, CUT ACROSS WITHOUT SAYING EXCUSE, SEE ALL THE ANIMALS, BARBARIANS AT 7 AM EVERY MORNING.
    CHEATING OF BUS FARES WHEN THESE MONKEYS PAY 1 RINGGIT AND WITH THAT TICKET, THEY BOARD AGAIN AT WOODLAND TO WHERE THEY GO, NO CHECKING BY STUPID SBS, BUT LOCALS, DAFT AS EVER, PAYS AND SUBSIDIZED ALL THE MALAYSIAN CHEATS

    Reply
  39. mice is nice 2 March 2012

    LOL, 2 March 2012
     
    yes, prejudice against foreigners is wrong, so what do you think should be done to put an end to it? something must have went very wrong somewhere, if prejudice as in xenophobia is not the issue, what is?
     
    like you i also wun blame foreigners, unless they entered S'pore illegally or are illegal overstayers. :)
     
     

    Reply
  40. kumaran 3 March 2012

    This looks like never ending story so it is up to the individual to make a ending if not your life will be ruined and the foreigners will only be same

    Reply
  41. @hangman
    Thks for highlighting my blog on this subject. This govt – via MP Baey's declaration that scholarships should be awarded based ONLY on merit has touched a raw nerve ! Your place of birth as a citizen is NOT a factor. Read more of what I say here ….
    https://gintai.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/my-take-on-the-sun-xu-debacle/
     

    Reply
  42. Author is probably a student or young graduate, and has not experienced dog-eat-dog fight for jobs with foreigners yet. Or has not experience any family member being retrenched/jobless and not getting any job offers or even interviews, while seeing thousands of foreigners being offered simple admin PMET jobs everyday. The author will learn fast as he/she experience more. If author is a guy and NSman, he will learn even faster.

    Reply
  43. on the bus 3 March 2012

    I think the author is a Singapore youth who is trying to write about a real problem.  But while recognizing a real problem, he fails to make a couple of clear distinctions.  As a lot of commenters point out, it is not xenophobia or bigotry that people are upset about Sun Xu himself.  However, it is bigotry and xenophobia when people respond to Sun Xu with statements about "PRC foreign trash" or that all PRC are worthless. have no manners. and are stealing the jobs of SIngaporeans.   It doesn't take an internet sleuth to see those kinds of comments plastering the TOC facebook wall, or the comment pages of TOC itself.  
    The author (and again, I think this is probably an oversight of his youth)  writes that prejudice is not wrong, but one should be aware of it.  One should be aware of it, for sure, but that's because it is wrong, and awareness is an opportunity to change.  Prejudice is lazy thinking, and when it manifests itself in bigoted generalizations, it's the worst sort of laziness.
    But the author is very, very right to point out that this same behaviour is evident, even dominant, among the awful generalizations made on TOCs pages against foreigners in general.  It's a dangerous and dissappointing trend.

    Reply
  44. roots 3 March 2012

    What has the PAP grassroots and activist have to say about this article or the remarks by the PRC.
    Is this what they have been supporting the party for so many years, to see it being "shed bits by bits", by the recruitment of foreingers into Singapore.
    Step up and stand up before it is too late.

    Reply
  45. The policy of taking these pigs who call us dogs. Thats the root of the problems. Send them back to where they belong. We can survive without them.

    Reply
  46. neutral 3 March 2012

    Very often locals do not really define a topic well before they comment on it leading to unnecessary arguements.
    The main issue is not whether we are anti foreigners but whether the govt. protects her citizens sufficiently from foreigners competing for jobs in the local market.
    If you immigrate to New Zealand, chances are that you'll take up to 5 years to find a job due to discrimination. You'll probably drive a taxi or start a small business and lose your skills/training before you can win a proper full time job from the locals there. In Australia, it's a 3 years job hunt with many racist employers around!
    So it's only fair for governments to offer some form of protection for their citizens!  

    Reply
  47. Ali Baba 3 March 2012

    @eaglefly…
    An issue right now about "dog" name calling is happening in Singapore by a PRC scholar, let put things right before you create another issue across the causeway with another name calling.
    Abt the bus ride at Woodlands Immigration as mentioned by your goodself, 170 and 160 which I believe the services are provided SBS. Firstly, this is happening in Singapore, where things should run in orderly precision manner but if it is not why pick on the passengers with all the name calling. I thought Singapore has as always, all the "fine" laws that will be dealt with like honking, spitting, throwings of litter and your comment about such an issue that is happening at Woodland Immigration should not warrant for all name calling. Maybe, you should start a blog for the world and the netizens at large here to read how great Singapore is, about issues that needed immediate attention so that the respective authorities will heed your attention to improve the situation and services immediately, be it civil or commercial. I am sure the relevant authorities that provided sub-standard services to its citizen after reading your blog will do something about it if it is "blown" to the the world to see (provide pictures or better still, have it in youtube too), maybe you can be famous too. So please help yourself here with all the name calling you can think of to the management or authorities that failed to provide you or the citizens of Singapore with their services.
    Note: Do you know that quite large numbers of these passengers that commute daily from JB to your red dot kingdom to work are actually your fellow Sinaporeans "residing" in Johore not because it is affordable to be in JB or they want to, but because they can't afford to rent a home or or even a room, let alone a home to call home in your kingdom.

    Reply
  48. Yes, is the government treating Singaporeans fairly? If yes, good. If no, why not?

    Reply
  49. Bollywood 3 March 2012

    @Ali Baba… Can't agree with you more..You are right…. There are still many Malaysian and Singaporean still links by blood tie…..
    It is not going to do us any good if this get into Malaysia and start another round of "dog" fight.  Not at least with our boys are participating in Malaysia cup and many Singaporeans are traveling in and out of Malaysia.
     

    Reply
  50. alex xia 4 March 2012

    I certainly appreciate the authours intention to move people away form racial discrimination  and  worse xenophobia.  If the author has travelled or lived overseas he will realize that these feeling existing everywhere and are lots milder here. (up to now)
    He need to distinguish two aspects to this problem,. First the anxiety, fear and disgust people have towards their governments policy to bring in what seems an unlimited number of foreign workers resulting in the displacement of Singapore workers. True on Not, the govt should have taken time to assure their citizens then run rough shod over then by rushing the foregners in then explain later when its too late. THe major part of the angst in Aingapore lies in this factor..it is anti PAP not anti foreigners. In all the bitching the FTs are inevitably mentioned bu there is only a mild level of negativity towards them.
    The second aspect is probably more worrying  from the authors point of view. Even so it does not yet amount to xenophobia but certainly there is cultural shock. If you live overseas, the 1`-2 months is usually OK, you enjoy the new environment like a tourist…but it gets to you after a while.. you begin to detest the local people, the way they talk, behave, the system, the crowds. You also begin to miss home which adds to the frustration.  I am sure a good section of our FTs suffer this…it is an illness that if unchecked can lead to dever mental discorders and psychotic behaviors. 
    For Singapore and many of whom have travelled extensively the huge number of strange people they see everyday crowding their space also creates a culture shock. This coupled with the economic slowdown. loss of jobs and the widening gap bewtten the haves and have nots has created deep and intense sense of distress and frustration.
    Guys like us bitching here are lucky. The expressingof our feeling help to allay the intensity of our negative feelings.
    I actually worry for the rest of Singapore and our new foreign friends, whom I Know are deeply trouble, depressed and frustrated but who have not found any channels  to expressed themselves., perhaps for fear of government reprisals. I only hope that these suppressed feeling will not in time explode to create civil disorder and unrest!. 
    For me, I encourage every Singapore resident, local and foreign to express themselves without fear dut without being abusive,  as the stability of our society depends on this.  
     

    Reply